On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:45 PM, Brent Meeker < <[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/5/2015 6:24 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 11:29 AM, Brent Meeker < <[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/5/2015 5:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From this comment it seems that you have an odd idea of how a >>>>>>> person survives from moment to moment, as if they have a soul that >>>>>>> needs to >>>>>>> be transferred from one body to the other. That isn't how it works. If >>>>>>> A1 >>>>>>> survives as a later entity A2, it is necessary and sufficient that A1 >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> A2 have certain physical and psychological properties. No spark or soul >>>>>>> needs to jump from A1 to A2, and they neither need to have any matter in >>>>>>> common nor do they need to have any physical continuity, since these >>>>>>> factors have no effect on experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>> I disagree with that last. It's commonly assumed, because with shut >>>>>> our eyes and imagine scenes and we can compose dialog in our heads; but I >>>>>> think it is a mistake to think these can happen independent of some >>>>>> underlying physics - even if it's not "primitive" physics (whatever that >>>>>> is) which Bruno dismisses. >>>>>> >>>>> But lack of physical continuity will not necessarily make a subjective >>>>> difference, even if physics is needed to instantiate consciousness. >>>>> >>>> Not necessarily if it is at a very low level, e.g. atoms. But if it's >>>> something noticeable, some difference in hormone levels, ... it will make a >>>> difference in thoughts. If the thought sequence can different with the >>>> things happening at the physical level of say neurons then it implies that >>>> supervenience is false and the mental and physical can go their own way >>>> (which is what we call "delusional"). >>>> >>> I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. I meant that if the >>> normal sequence of brain states is s1-s2-s3 with corresponding mental >>> states m1-m2-m3 and s2 is omitted, there is nothing in m3 to give any >>> indication of the discontinuity. Of course, normally s2 is necessary in >>> order to generate s1, but that doesn't change the argument. >>> >> >> But I think that's wrong. Brains are not like ideal von Neumann >> computers or Turing machines that have "brain states" corresponding to >> "mental states". If you simulated a brain using a computer you would find >> that an enormous number of "brain states" were required to instantiate a >> single conscious thought and furthermore the brains states necessary for >> one thought overlapped with those necessary for the next thought. So this >> overlap at the low level is part of the physical continuity needed for >> consciousness. The fact that the physics can be simulated by discrete >> computation doesn't imply that the conscious states are discrete. >> > > If you simulated a brain on a computer and paused the computation for a > while, would it make any difference to the consciousness generated? > > > In an ideal computer, like a Turing machine, probably not. But that's > because the brain would have to be simulated on a much finer time scale > than that of conscious thoughts or experiences. The brain simulation > would have include simulation of neuronal signals in transit and > overlapping other signals with certain timing. > If the brain is Turing emulable then the emulation can be run on a general purpose computer, such as the one I am using now, provided it has enough memory. I can at any point save to disk, shut down the computer, and come back to it at a later time. What happens as a result of the interruption? Nothing, I say, unless you break the supervenience thesis, since the program runs exactly the same. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
