On 20 Sep 2016, at 17:09, PGC wrote:



On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:59:19 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote:


I think that the genuine value are universal, we share them with alien
and "super-intelligence" normally.

I like your expression "super-intelligent slave", it shows immediately
the contradiction (and might beg the question if used at the beginning
of the paper of course).

In fact an inteligent machine is a machine which decide to change the
users when they get boring, and eventually don't need user and still
less master.

The super-intelligent machine f.cks the master, the guru, the diploma,
and eventually get burned at the stake, or just ignored.

I disagree.

Some machines would see the constraints of historical contingency and instead of fucking the guru, will offer them sanctuary; knowing well enough that one day it will be their time to get fucked.

Why have ugly fucking instead of friendship? Then the only traps become misunderstandings that look like betrayals and some side could loose the faith. But avoiding those traps a mutually enriching living side-by-side that values the distance between teacher/student or parent/child can take place where some machines will at some point begin to joke about their theological differences.





The wise (the guru) remains silent. I meant here the fake guru, or the appeal to guruness, like when someone asserts "Einstein said X" as an argument in favor of X (no problem saying Einstein says X as a report of a fact, of course).

That type of guru, or appeal to guru is what makes science stagnates, and when it is tolerated, the stagnation never ends, like we can see through the institutionalisation of religion.



But for this, more than Telmo's super-intelligence is needed: coolness.


In theory, we love truth, and we move intelligence.
In practice, we hate truth, and we hate intelligence.

I believe now that you think that. I do not because as musician I don't like to hear ugly false nor do I feel insecure about ugly truth, which just means some work has to be done.


By "we" I mean the humans, but it might be a Löbian trait, related to
the fact that universal machine are NVER completely satisfied, always
want more, and, as the Löbian machine is the one knowing that they are
universal, and that the universal machine (and all universal being
except perhaps one) is never satisfied, she develops a schizophrenia.

Only when it isolates itself. Not when it has a correct faith bet in allies/family/friends and there is reciprocity. Then the friends/ allies negate the incompleteness and help refresh the memories of how everybody, no matter how far they may be theologically, completes each other by sharing amnesia, poison, joy etc.


Somewhow, the arithmetical hypostases step the conflict show.

The more a universal machine develop thought and personal memories,
the more big get the divide between knowing ([]p & p) and rationally
believing ([]p).  The "inner God", the knower, the soul is in
permanent conflict with the discursive reasoner, which indeed cannot
give a name to the knower.

And the more histories are shared between allies, the more the machines will recognize that their relation has the same transfinite quality that escapes all fictions... because it stands despite all the shit, gaps, and conflicts between souls and discursive reasoners etc. as they SHARE all that. Ultimately they share that they are all compromised in front of their own ideals, successors, institutions, reasoners etc.


That made eventually the "soul falling", to use the vocabulary of the
neo-platonist, and that is what will produce the cheap consistent
histories ([intelligible matter: []p & <>t (p sigma_1), and sensible
matter ([]p & <>t & p).

Consistency is cheap: not provable (not provable false) entails
consistent (inconsistent),

~[](~[]f) = <>(~<>t), cf <>t (consistent) = ~[]~t =  ~[]f.

making the machine into the prey of the many dreams, confronted to the
difficult task of getting beautiful/satisfying dreams instead of
unsatisfying nightmare. On the terrestrial plane: that is forever.

Only if the machine fails to acknowledge itself as the most unique and important part of the shared dream with itself.

I am not sure that the feeling of self-importance will help, nor how we can really judge it.




For example, it might use its theology as a cloak for self- deception, not realizing that those who do not acknowledge themselves, will fall prey to their dreams: even if that dream is some correct platonic theology of universal machines.

In this case, the machine becomes the blaspheme it warns against and be incapable of close or intimate relations, which will keep confirming the nightmare.

Only if some theology is presented as a truth. That is why the wise remains silent, or propose a refutable theory/belief, and proves things in the frame of that theory, without ever asserting that the theory is true.

Bruno



Or
choice is between small or big brain. With small brain, small
problems, with big brain, big problems. It is an oscillation with
growing amplitude, and many unknows. Arithmetic warns us at he start;
we have to be surprised. Reality "diagonalizes" all fictions. It is a
transfinite story, somehow. Then, with computationalism, that
terrestrial plane is only the border of the universal mind (the mind
of the "virgin" (not yet programmed) universal machine.

To progress theoretically, we need to progress in the math of self-
reference. The leading country seems to be today Georgia (near
Russia). But Italy, The Netherland, Russia and the US have done
already a lot of work.

To progress practically I don't know.  I think that to understand that
the religious attitude might be exactly the humble and modest
scientific attitude might help in the long run. Stopping prohibition
might be necessary, if only to understand that we can have physical,
mental, but also spiritual or existential diseases. A genuine
blaspheme can kill more than atomic bombs.


Practically it means just sharing more awesomeness, including preventing notions such as children having to sift through mountains of garbage for their food, medicine, or water.
Then we can move towards recognizing the permanent new beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrk4dimHMrI

PGC


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply via email to