Hi John,
On 04 Feb 2017, at 19:51, John Mikes wrote:
Stathis asked:
Is agnosticism about God different from agnosticism about other
entities such as fairies and elves?
My reply is ab astounding " N O "
I wold add to te fairies and elves the forces, the energy, the
matter and all facets of a universe-built world we came up with in
our speculations upon halfway understood (??) observations and their
explanations (our way).
An agnostic just "doesn't know". Not those facets we talk about an
not those we have no idea about (so far?).
Agnosticism is a hard principle to follow (ask Bruno).
In front of the doctor, we have to make bet, on reality and on *some*
afterlife, hereby we hope. But, this is a matter of applied science,
and I am more for contemplations, motivated by elegance in the scheme
of things. I truly have no clues on the truth, but math (and other
brain pertubation technic) can give some glimpse I hope.
A scientist which pretends to know just one truth, is either someone
asked to sum up too much things in not enough line and time, or a bad
pedagog, or under influence, threat, or a pseudo-priest in disguise
trying to brainwash you for private interests (of him, her or their
group).
In science we know nothing for sure, but we built precise theory,
which are just summary of our last prejudices, and we try to present
them as clear as possible so to be lucky enough to show them refuted
one day. We learn mostly by being shown wrong, but some good theory
can last a very long time, and who knows, sometimes they got some gem
of truth, but only god (truth) can know that.
That agnosticism is not a relativism. We can still believe in an
ultimate truth, but we should be willing to build transfinite ladders
made of false theories to get a glimpse on it. We might have special
contact at the start, as we have less prejudices.
There is nothing wrong in being wrong. The only wrong thing is in
being wrong and knowing being wrong and still continue to be wrong
(whatever the reason).
Bruno
JM
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]
> wrote:
On Wed., 1 Feb. 2017 at 4:32 am, Telmo Menezes
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Are you really agnostic about the god of theism?
Quoting from wikipedia:
"The term theism derives from the Greek theos meaning "god". The term
theism was first used by Ralph Cudworth (1617–1688).[5] In Cudworth's
definition, they are "strictly and properly called Theists, who
affirm, that a perfectly conscious understanding being, or mind,
existing of itself from eternity, was the cause of all other
things".[6]
Atheism is commonly understood as rejection of theism in the broadest
sense of theism, i.e. the rejection of belief in a god or gods.[7] The
claim that the existence of any deity is unknown or unknowable is
agnosticism.[8][9]"
I would say that, under these definitions, the correct scientific
stance is to be agnostic.
In this mailing list, we have seen hypothesis about such a mind that
do not require man-in-the-sky, creationism or other absurdities, nor
conflict with current scientific models. Are they correct? I don't
know, so...
Is agnosticism about God different from agnosticism about other
entities such as fairies and elves?
--
Stathis Papaioannou
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