On 3 May 2017 9:16 p.m., "Brent Meeker" <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 5/3/2017 12:31 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 3 May 2017 8:11 p.m., "Brent Meeker" <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: On 5/3/2017 6:21 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Brent argues that AI will dissolve the hard question. I think that > people know intuitively that it will not. This is what pop-culture > works such as "Blade Runner" are about. > People knew intuitively that the Earth was flat, God was needed to explain morality, and chemistry couldn't explain life. Ask yourself this: You're designing a new Mars Rovers to explore Mars for years and you want them to be able to learn and act intelligently and to interact with one another. Do you deliberately make it conscious?...if so, how? Might you make it conscious inadvertently?...and what difference would it make? Having formulated these questions, do you think modal logic will answer them? IMO the problem is already in the formulation. The way you've set it up obviously leads to a conflation of consciousness and intelligent behaviour. No, I'm not conflating them. That's the point of the questions - are they separable and what do you do about it. I think Bruno already thinks they are not separable. Although it's known a "the hard problem", realizing consciousness should, according to Bruno's theory, be easy. It's why he thinks jumping spiders are conscious. I think so too, but I don't think consciousness is a simple binary property, like lobian or not. But in my view the thing is incoherent unless expressed in a way that is able to handle the first person view directly in something like its own terms. And yes, modal logic may be able to give us at least an inkling of how this might go, at least in its most basic form. But you don't like where this idea leads it would seem, although perhaps you will just say the case hasn't been made. Maybe I'm wrong, but even so I can't help feeling that you're just out of sympathy with the whole idea. I don't think sympathy for a theory is a scientific attitude. Perhaps not, but a certain sympathetic connection with a particular way of thinking may still lead to a breakthrough in a quite unexpected direction. Or indeed the opposite. I need hardly point out that what one sees as data is in the first place theory driven and lack of sympathy with a particular mode of explanation may make one discount or fail to recognise any evidence in its favour. I have sympathy for Bruno, who has apparently been treated unfairly by some in academia - but none for his theory. If that is the case why do you continue to debate it? David Brent David Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.