On 6/12/2017 9:59 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 05 Dec 2017, at 01:30, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 5/12/2017 3:34 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 04 Dec 2017, at 04:34, Russell Standish wrote:
On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:11:11PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 3/12/2017 9:03 am, Russell Standish wrote:
The point being that the uncertainty in the coin's initial position is
itself due to the amplification of quantum uncertainty by classical
chaos.

That may happen in some cases, but just looking at the numbers says that normal thermal motions will far outweigh the effect of any residual quantum uncertainty. In most cases where the Lyanpunov exponents lead to classical
chaos, there is more than enough classical thermal uncertainty in the
initial conditions so that any residual quantum uncertainty is irrelevant.

But surely, classical thermal uncertainty is just due to amplification
of quantum uncertainty by means of molecular chaos.

Indeed. Bruce seems to introduce a continuous collapse in the picture. That classical thermal uncertainty can only augment the number of terms of the superposition. It amplifies the chance of getting a superposition of the outcomes.

See my previous reply. There is no collapse i the picture I am presenting -- I am talking about a pure Everettian many worlds picture. And in that picture, classical thermal uncertainty can never produce quantum superpositions, or add terms to them. Such thermal uncertainties certainly do not amplify "the chance of getting a superposition of the outcomes". You are talking nonsense.

The superposition are there at the start. Then the classical chaos amplifies them, only. They become very quickly not detectable, but this means only that we can forget them FAPP. Your invocation of "classical" seems to me rather magical. We might use "quasi classical", or "FAPP classical", but there is nothing classical but first person plural statistical appearances.

So you agree the any superposition that there might have been initially rapidly disappears? (We can forget the superposition FAPP.)

In the rest, you are arguing trivial semantics. The classical world is the objective physical world that emerges from the quantum substrate -- what you confusingly call the 1p plural, but everyone else calls the third person intersubjectively agreed world.

Bruce

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