> On Jan 3, 2018, at 11:34 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 1/3/2018 6:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> On 01 Jan 2018, at 19:01, John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> https://www.sciencealert.com/your-consciousness-does-not-switch-off-during-a-dreamless-sleep-say-scientists >>>> >>>> <https://www.sciencealert.com/your-consciousness-does-not-switch-off-during-a-dreamless-sleep-say-scientists> >>> >>> > Wonderful! >>> >>> I found nothing wonderful in it, I thought it was a rather silly >>> article. Why should the movement of somebody's eyeballs be better evidence >>> for consciousness than the movement of somebody's vocal cords that make a >>> sound like "I was not conscious"? >> >> >> >> What is wonderful is that scientists get confirmation that we keep some form >> of consciousness during the NON-REM sleep. Until recently, it was taken as >> as "mainstream-admitted" that consciousness appears in REM sleep and the >> awaken state but disappears in "deep or slow, non-REM dreams". Descartes and >> many Mystics have claimed the contrary ... until that paper and research, >> which of course needs confirmation, etc. >> >> Thanks to Salvia divinorum reports (and personal), I can make full sense of >> Descartes' assertion that we are conscious at all moment during the whole >> night sleep. What happens is that we don't memorize easily the content of >> those non-REM-sleep. It seems much more difficult than the common >> REM-dreams, which are still hard to remember for many people. > > I don't know why it was even a question. It's common knowledge that you can > whisper a person's name to them and they'll wake up immediately, whatever > their stage of sleep. So the difference between REM and non-REM sleep is not > fundamental to awareness.
OK. It is not a bad argument. The reason is that most people, if asked if they were conscious (after being been awaked with the whisper, say) claim to have no memory of having been conscious, when awaken in slow-sleep (as opposed to REM-sleep where they mention vivid imageries). In the field, most experts seem to have believed that slow-sleep was not accompanied by consciousness, but things change. Bruno > > Brent > >> >> Note that the eye-ball movement concerned only the REM-dreams (discovered by >> Jouvet). When we dream, we are awaken and paralysed, according to Hobson >> theory of dream, except for the ocular muscles, so that a lucid dreamer can >> use that to communicate their dreams and experience in "real time" (with a >> 10/13 ratio difference though, in the average). Then the EEG can show that >> when we sing or when we move the arms during sleep, the same cerebral >> activity is trigged, same as when we do that in the non-sleep state. >> >> Bruno >> >> >>> >>> John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
