On 4/22/2018 7:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
That's confused.  Values are not objective facts and nobody (including militant 
atheists) thinks they are.  Values, like loving your children, are inherently 
subjective.
Subjective does not mean it has no intrinsic values,

That's my point.  All values are subjective.  They are all relative to someone holding them.

like self-preservation and harmony with the neighbourhood. Everyone agrees on 
good and bad in most case. Everyone prefer to drink water to being boiled aliv

Actually that's probably not true.  We all know of people who have immolated themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/20/david-buckel-lgbt-lawyer-self-immolation-new-york

So whether some one prefers drinking water to being boiled alive probably depends on the consequences of the alternatives.

But I agree there is no sharp division between subjective and objective.  Even in physics 'facts' tend to boil down to what all informed persons agree on.

Brent

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