> On 25 Apr 2018, at 20:40, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 4/25/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 22 Apr 2018, at 23:29, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/22/2018 7:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> Science is never a question of agreement or disagreement, but of >>>> understanding or finding a mistake, internal or external (vis-àb-vis >>>> facts). >>> >>> That's simplisitc. You commonly refer to agreement of beliefs, as in "Do >>> you believe 2+2=4?" Science is only possible because people can agree on >>> facts. The account of how Alfred Russell Wallace tried to prove that the >>> Earth is round to the head of the Flat Earth Society is a cautionary tale >>> about that. >> >> Only when we bet that there is reality, which is science only when >> metaphysics is done with the scientific method, but the scientist will not >> start with “do you believe that 2+2=4”. He will give some axioms, like >> >> 0 ≠ s(x) >> s(x) = s(y) -> x = y >> x = 0 v Ey(x = s(y)) >> x+0 = x >> x+s(y) = s(x+y) >> x*0=0 >> x*s(y)=(x*y)+x >> >> And make reasoning from that, without addressing question of belief. For >> example, if someone say that he disagrees with the third axioms, the >> teacher, say, will say to wait when they will study an axiomatisation of all >> integers, but that today they axiomatise only the non negative integers. >> >> Now, we can agree or disagree on the applicability of a theory, when used >> informally. But in “serious theology”, we use the axiomatic method, and >> there is no disagreement possible, as when you do theology scientifically, >> your own private opinion in the matter is kept silent. >> >> The contemporary disagreement in theology just comes the fact that since >> 1500 years, we are just not allowed to use reason and methodical >> verification in that field. We tolerate the argument of authority since >> long, or we have no choice, or become dissident, etc. > > But a scientific theory does not consist of axioms alone (or even mostly). > It must also include interpretations to connect it to observation.
That is the point under debate. You assume Aristotle theology: that there is something to be observed. > So it is literally meaningless to say you have derived science by an > axiomatic method. I say that if mechanism is correct, very elementary arithmetic is the most that we can assume, and the illusion of a physical universe is entirely explain from inside, in the mind of the numbers who believes usually more than the axioms, in particular, they believe in the axioms + the induction axioms (which do not operate at the ontological level). Bruno > > Brent > >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
