On 4/25/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 22 Apr 2018, at 23:29, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:



On 4/22/2018 7:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Science is never a question of agreement or disagreement, but of understanding or finding a mistake, internal or external (vis-àb-vis facts).

That's simplisitc.  You commonly refer to agreement of beliefs, as in "Do you believe 2+2=4?"  Science is only possible because people can agree on facts.  The account of how Alfred Russell Wallace tried to prove that the Earth is round to the head of the Flat Earth Society is a cautionary tale about that.

Only when we bet that there is reality, which is science only when metaphysics is done with the scientific method, but the scientist will not start with “do you believe that 2+2=4”. He will give some axioms, like

0 ≠ s(x)
s(x) = s(y) -> x = y
x = 0 v Ey(x = s(y))
x+0 = x
x+s(y) = s(x+y)
x*0=0
x*s(y)=(x*y)+x

And make reasoning from that, without addressing question of belief. For example, if someone say that he disagrees with the third axioms, the teacher, say, will say to wait when they will study an axiomatisation of all integers, but that today they axiomatise only the non negative integers.

Now, we can agree or disagree on the applicability of a theory, when used informally. But in “serious theology”, we use the axiomatic method, and there is no disagreement possible, as when you do theology scientifically, your own private opinion in the matter is kept silent.

The contemporary disagreement in theology just comes the fact that since 1500 years, we are just not allowed to use reason and methodical verification in that field. We tolerate the argument of authority since long, or we have no choice, or become dissident, etc.

But a scientific theory does not consist of axioms alone (or even mostly).  It must also include interpretations to connect it to observation.  So it is literally meaningless to say you have derived science by an axiomatic method.

Brent


Bruno




Brent

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