> On 7 Jun 2018, at 19:40, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > > I know perfectly well what the personal pronoun “you” will mean, as its > meaning will not change. > > Of course it will change. Today "you" means the man who is currently > experiencing H, tomorrow "you" means the man who is currently experiencing W > and remembers experiencing H yesterday; and tomorrow "you" also means the man > who is currently experiencing M and remembers experiencing H yesterday. And > please don't rebut with your standard "from the 1p" rubber stamp reply unless > it is made clear which "THE 1p" is being referred to.
That is simply not true. The first person “I” means always the H-guy, even when his experience differentiates into two histories. Or you cannot say “I will survive with an artificial brain”, and computationalism is made senseless. > > >> so which ONE is Mr. You?? > > > If I could answer that question, there would, of course, no be any first > person indeterminacy. > > If Bruno can not answer that question then Bruno has absolutely no business > ever using the word "you" in any thought experiment and all the grand > sounding term "first person indeterminacy" means is that gibberish questions > have no answers. No, you are only setting up a trap. If I could answer your question in one word, then and only then the first person indeterminacy would be gibberish. Well tried! >> >>> One will say “oh, I am the H-guy having survived in W” and he is right >> >> >>I agree. So what is the probability the H-guy will see W? 100% > > > No, > > No? So you think the H-guy will see W no question about it, ? > but there is not a 100% chance the H-guy will see W. This is logic? ? I explain this later … Let us see. > > > > because if that is the prediction made in Helsinki, as asked, it will be > refuted by the M-guy. > > What the M-guy says or doesn't say is irrelevant. Why? > If the W-guy is the H-guy and the W-guy sees W then that's the end of the > story, the H guy will see W with absolute certainty. Oh, just to evacuate the counter-example. That is not valid. > Yes the H-guy is no longer unique but that is to be expected because that's > what "being copied" means. But that enforce you to listen to the M-guy. Simply enough. > > > We want the prediction be correct for both copies > > What you want is contradictory, its ridiculous! Obviously not. If the H-guy, when still in H, predicts W v M, that prediction is verified, when all the others are contradicted by one of the copies, if not both. > If they are dropped into different environments, like in different cities, > then they can't have the same fate so no one prediction can be correct about > what will happen to both of them; and that is all utterly predictable. So > where is the indeterminacy? It is on the first person that the H-guy will live *from its first person point of view*. > The only grand mystery in all this is what does the word "you" mean when > Bruno asks "What one and only one city will YOU see after YOU step out of a > YOU duplicating machine?” The “you” is an indexical. If you were genuinely interested, you would study the translation in arithmetic. The 3-you is mathematically defined with Kleene’s second recursion theorem, and the 1p-you is defined with applying Theaetus’s definition on it. Bruno > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
