> On 7 Jun 2018, at 19:40, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > I know perfectly well what the personal pronoun “you” will mean, as its > meaning will not change. > > Of course it will change. Today "you" means the man who is currently > experiencing H, tomorrow "you" means the man who is currently experiencing W > and remembers experiencing H yesterday; and tomorrow "you" also means the man > who is currently experiencing M and remembers experiencing H yesterday. And > please don't rebut with your standard "from the 1p" rubber stamp reply unless > it is made clear which "THE 1p" is being referred to.
That is simply not true. The first person “I” means always the H-guy, even when his experience differentiates into two histories. Or you cannot say “I will survive with an artificial brain”, and computationalism is made senseless. > > >> so which ONE is Mr. You?? > > > If I could answer that question, there would, of course, no be any first > person indeterminacy. > > If Bruno can not answer that question then Bruno has absolutely no business > ever using the word "you" in any thought experiment and all the grand > sounding term "first person indeterminacy" means is that gibberish questions > have no answers. No, you are only setting up a trap. If I could answer your question in one word, then and only then the first person indeterminacy would be gibberish. Well tried! >> >>> One will say “oh, I am the H-guy having survived in W” and he is right >> >> >>I agree. So what is the probability the H-guy will see W? 100% > > > No, > > No? So you think the H-guy will see W no question about it, ? > but there is not a 100% chance the H-guy will see W. This is logic? ? I explain this later … Let us see. > > > > because if that is the prediction made in Helsinki, as asked, it will be > refuted by the M-guy. > > What the M-guy says or doesn't say is irrelevant. Why? > If the W-guy is the H-guy and the W-guy sees W then that's the end of the > story, the H guy will see W with absolute certainty. Oh, just to evacuate the counter-example. That is not valid. > Yes the H-guy is no longer unique but that is to be expected because that's > what "being copied" means. But that enforce you to listen to the M-guy. Simply enough. > > > We want the prediction be correct for both copies > > What you want is contradictory, its ridiculous! Obviously not. If the H-guy, when still in H, predicts W v M, that prediction is verified, when all the others are contradicted by one of the copies, if not both. > If they are dropped into different environments, like in different cities, > then they can't have the same fate so no one prediction can be correct about > what will happen to both of them; and that is all utterly predictable. So > where is the indeterminacy? It is on the first person that the H-guy will live *from its first person point of view*. > The only grand mystery in all this is what does the word "you" mean when > Bruno asks "What one and only one city will YOU see after YOU step out of a > YOU duplicating machine?” The “you” is an indexical. If you were genuinely interested, you would study the translation in arithmetic. The 3-you is mathematically defined with Kleene’s second recursion theorem, and the 1p-you is defined with applying Theaetus’s definition on it. Bruno > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
