On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 9:58 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
>>So you demand that the first person view of the Moscow man tomorrow >> predict today > > > *> No. I ask this, since day one, to the H-guy; before he pushes the > button.* > Stop talking about "the H-guy" until you tell all of us exactly what you mean by the term! I mean anyone who *REMEMBERS* being a guy in Helsinki before a button was pushed, and thus that guy still exists after the button was pushed. However if a different definition is used, if the H-guy *IS* the person before the button was pushed then obviously "the H-guy" will not exist after the button was pushed, and that would be true regardless of if the button is connected to a people duplicating machine or just connected to a doorbell. It all depends on exactly what "the H-guy" means. I am crystal clear about all this, why can't you be? What exactly do you want predicted and just as important who do you want to make the prediction? >>Nobody can ask the H-guy anything unless yesterday before any of this >> started everybody agreed on exactly what "the H-guy" means, I have provided >> a clear unambiguous definition of that term but you have not. > > > *> I cannot parse the sentence.* > That surprises me because it was not a complex sentence. Which word didn't you understand? > >>Asking "How many cities do you see?" would be a dumb question to ask. >> What you should ask is "Given our predetermined agreement about what the >> term means made before anybody was copied how many cities do you think the >> H-guy ended up seeing?”. > > > > >*That is simply not the question asked. * > Then what the hell was the question asked?? If its a Monday do you think these 2 questions asked of the Helsinki man are equivalent? 1) How many cities will you see on Tuesday? 2) How many cities will the Helsinki man see on Tuesday? If they are not equivalent then what is the referent of "you"? If there are equivalent then must "the Helsinki man" be in Helsinki? And can the Helsinki man of Monday exist on Tuesday? If the answers are yes then the Helsinki man will see 2 cities at the same time on Tuesday. You will no doubt respond with talk about peepee but if it makes sense you should be able to insert the peepee into the question on Monday so that it can be answered with a simple yes or no on Tuesday, but you don't know how to do that because the entire thing makes no sense. > *>You eliminate the first person experience.* > I'm not eliminating anything I just want to know exactly what is the question that you ask the H-guy today before the duplication is, and what question you will ask the 2 guys tomorrow after the duplication that you belive will refute or confirm the correctness of the answer given by the guy on Monday. And I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting to know what the hell we're talking about. *> If the H-guy is promise coffee at both place, he can predict clearly > that after pushing the button he* [...] > No, "he" can't do predict anything nor can anybody else until we know exactly who "he" is. Bruno said Bruno always knows who the referent is when personal pronouns are used in this thought experiment but in John's last post John asked Bruno to prove it by simply not using them, but John predicted Bruno would not do that. John's prediction turned out to be correct. > *>the question is about the 1p experience, not about some person is from a > 3p point of view.* > Stop telling me what the question is about and tell be what exactly the question that you ask in Helsinki *IS.* I want to know the specific question you ask the Helsinki man today, what his answer is, and what questions you will ask the copies tomorrow that you think will refute it , And there must be NO PERSONAL PRONOUNS in the question, but that shouldn't problem as you claim to always know who the referent is. Also the question should be about what somebody expects to happen but what somebody predicts will happen. The statement "I expect to see Santa Claus workshop on Tuesday" may be true but that doesn't mean I will see Santa Claus workshop on Tuesday. John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
