On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:02:56 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11/1/2018 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
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>
>
> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: 
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *> infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing 
>>> machines*
>>
>>
>> That is true, it is also true that if dragons existed they would be 
>> dangerous and if I had some cream I could have strawberries and cream, if I 
>> had some strawberries.   
>>
>> *> How  "real" you think this is depends on whether you are a Platonist 
>>> or a fictionalist.*
>>>
>>
>> No, it depends on if you think logical contradictions can exist, if they 
>> can then there is no point in reading any mathematical proof and logic is 
>> no longer a useful tool for anything.
>>
>> John K Clark
>>
>>
>>>
> Of course logics are fiction too. (They're just languages after all.)
>
>
> OK.  Sentences written down are physical and not fictions.  But can they 
> be contradictory?  How does "This page is red." contradict "This page is 
> blue." unless they have some meaning as propositions.  But this must be a 
> relation between a proposition (an abstract thing) and a fact (the color of 
> this page).
>
> Brent
>




Sentences, like this one, are physical *only* in the sense that they are 
(in this case) made up of electronic bits displayed on a screen (as you are 
looking at right now, maybe on a laptop or smartphone) - or they could be 
made up of ink strokes on paper, etc.


One can't read anything more into them physically that that. What one reads 
out of them (a person looking at this sentence, or a computer scanning one) 
is a difference matter.

There are no abstractions in an immaterial sense.

- pt

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