On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:28:32 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/15/2018 7:43 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:09 AM Brent Meeker <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/14/2018 7:31 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 8:43 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> Yes, you create a whole theology around not all truths are provable. >>> But you ignore that what is false is also provable. Provable is only >>> relative to axioms. >>> >>> >> 1. Do you agree a Turing machine will either halt or not? >> >> 2. Do you agree that no finite set of axioms has the power to prove >> whether or not any given Turing machine will halt or not? >> >> >> 3. What does this tell us about the relationship between truth, proofs, >> and axioms? >> >> >> What do you think it tells us. Does it tell us that a false axiom will >> not allow proof of a false proposition? >> > > It tells us mathematical truth is objective and doesn't come from axioms. > Axioms are like physical theories, we can test them and refute them if they > lead to predictions that are demonstrably false. E.g., if they predict a > Turing machine will not halt, but it does, then we can reject that axiom as > an incorrect theory of mathematical truth. Similarly, we might find axioms > that allow us to prove more things than some weaker set of axioms, thereby > building a better theory, but we have no mechanical way of doing this. In > that way it is like doing science, and requires trial and error, comparing > our theories with our observations, etc. > > > Fine, except you've had to quailfy it as "mathematical truth", meaning > that it is relative to the axioms defining the Turning machine. Remember a > Turing machine isn't a real device. >
This seems to be the core problem with Bruno's proposal or model of reality; how does an imaginary device produce the illusion of matter (and space and time)? AG > > Brent > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
