On 12/11/2018 10:34 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:


On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 12:13:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:



    On 12/9/2018 11:38 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:


    On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 8:43:59 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote:



        On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:02 PM Philip Thrift
        <[email protected]> wrote:



            On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 9:36:39 AM UTC-6, Jason
            wrote:



                On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:53 AM Philip Thrift
                <[email protected]> wrote:



                    On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 2:27:45 PM
                    UTC-6, Jason wrote:


                        I think truth is primitive.

                        Jason



                    As a matter of linguistics (and philosophy),
                    *truth* and *matter* are linked:

                    "As a matter of fact, ..."
                    "The truth of the matter is ..."
                    "It matters that ..."
                    ...
                    [ https://www.etymonline.com/word/matter
                    <https://www.etymonline.com/word/matter> ]


                I agree they are linked.  Though matter may be a few
                steps removed from truth.  Perhaps one way to
                interpret the link more directly is thusly:

                There is an equation whose every solution (where the
                equation happens to be */true/*, e.g. is satisfied
                when it has certain values assigned to its variables)
                maps its variables to states of the time evolution of
                the wave function of our universe.  You might say
                that we (literally not figuratively) live within such
                an equation.  That its truth reifies what we call matter.

                But I think truth plays an even more fundamental roll
                than this.  e.g. because the following statement is
                */true/* "two has a successor" then there exists a
                successor to 2 distinct from any previous number. 
                Similarly, the */truth/* of "9 is not prime" implies
                the existence of a factor of 9 besides 1 and 9.

                Jason



                    Schopenhauer 's view: "A judgment has /material
                    truth/ if its concepts are based on intuitive
                    perceptions that are generated from sensations.
                    If a judgment has its reason (ground) in another
                    judgment, its truth is called logical or formal.
                    If a judgment, of, for example, pure mathematics
                    or pure science, is based on the forms (space,
                    time, causality) of intuitive, empirical
                    knowledge, then the judgment has transcendental
                    truth."
                    [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth
                    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth> ]


                I guess I am referring to transcend truth here. Truth
                concerning the integers is sufficient to yield the
                universe, matter, and all that we see around us.

                Jason




            In my view there is basically just *material* (from
            matter) truth and *linguistic* (from language) truth.

            [
            https://codicalist.wordpress.com/2018/06/18/to-tell-the-truth/
            <https://codicalist.wordpress.com/2018/06/18/to-tell-the-truth/>
            ]

            Relations and functions are linguistic: relational type
            theory (RTT) , functional type theory (FTT) languages.

            Numbers are also linguistic beings, the (fictional)
            semantic objects of Peano arithmetic (PA).

            Numbers can be "materialized" via /nominalization /(cf.
            Hartry Field, refs. in [
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartry_Field
            <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartry_Field> ]).


        Assuming the primacy of matter assumes more and explains
        less, than assuming the primacy of arithmetical truth.

        Jason




    In today's era of mathematics, Joel David Hamkins (@JDHamkins
    <https://twitter.com/JDHamkins>) has shown there is a
    "multiverse" of truths:

    *The set-theoretic multiverse*
    [ https://arxiv.org/abs/1108.4223 <https://arxiv.org/abs/1108.4223> ]

    /The multiverse view in set theory, introduced and argued for in
    this article, is the view that there are many distinct concepts
    of set, each instantiated in a corresponding set-theoretic
    universe. The universe view, in contrast, asserts that there is
    an absolute background set concept, with a corresponding absolute
    set-theoretic universe in which every set-theoretic question has
    a definite answer. The multiverse position, I argue, explains our
    experience with the enormous diversity of set-theoretic
    possibilities, a phenomenon that challenges the universe view. In
    particular, I argue that the continuum hypothesis is settled on
    the multiverse view by our extensive knowledge about how it
    behaves in the multiverse, and as a result it can no longer be
    settled in the manner formerly hoped for.
    /
    /
    /
    /
    /
    What this means is that for mathematics (a language category),
    truth depends on the language.

    I think Hamkins could say the same thing in French.  His example
    of the continuum hypothesis just says that by adding as axioms
    different undecidable propositions we get different sets of
    theorems.  He doesn't use the word "truth" and I think with good
    reason.  Theorems in mathematics aren't "true" in any normal sense
    of the word.  What is true is that the axioms imply the
    theorem...given the rules of inference.

    Brent




"truth=proof" is what (intuitionistic) type theory is about. Curry-Howard correspondence makes "proof=program".

That's Bruno's idea.  Arithmetic /believes /what is provable in arithmetic.  But what is provable is only true conditional on the axioms and the rules of inference.

Brent


two axiom sets = two programming languages (like Python versions 1,0 and 2.0)

- pt
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