> On 1 May 2019, at 00:20, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 4/30/2019 3:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: >>>> Ok, so how does it appear ? >>> >>> Like this (you're getting kind of dense). >>> >>> <aobpjfdojmonpggd.png> >> >> >> I agree that to define the qualia red, the ostensive definition is the only >> possible. But that does not mean that ???ostensive definition??? explains >> the existence of the impression. With ???red???, it is well known that we >> cannot be sure if we live all a similar qualia. > > Of course not.Red has many associations which inform the emotions, values, > and actions it evokes; many derived from the fact that it is the color of > one's blood.?? But some may associate it more with roses or the sky at sunset.
OK. We agree. > >> >> Cosmin is kind of dense, but I still agree you can quick on consciousness. >> With mechanism, it is up to the believer in matter to justify what is matter >> and how it selects the computations in arithmetic to make it more real, or >> conscious, etc. > > My point is that "qualia" don't exist independent of an environment, and an > evolutionary history. That is ambiguous. A human qualia needs a human history. But with mechanism, a human qualia can be encoded into a program or a number, and copied. It is true for other “deep notion”. The work of Shakespeare needs also a human long history, but you can copy the entire work of Shakespeare on a disk. If your point is that you would only say “yes” to the doctor, if he copies your brain+a part of the environment, you are still in the frame of the mechanist assumption, unless you explicit posit something both not coinable in the environment and relevant for your conscious state to survive the copy, but in that case, we are out of my working hypothesis (at a place where I will ask why to speculate on something that we have no evidence for). (Would Z1* depart from Nature, that would be such an evidence, but that has not yet been shown.) Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
