That's the essence of it... not to confuse theology and ontology with a
search for the truth..
On 5/21/2019 6:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 May 2019, at 14:18, Lawrence Crowell
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:55:19 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell
<[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:
I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been
on the Moon. I asked them to prove it to me by going again,
but they said they cannot do it. What do you think ? Is this
anecdote true ?
When I was a kid I was big on the moon landing. We went on a
vacation to Florida and saw one of the Saturn V rockets lift
off. The thing is that if these were faked, then NASA built a
370 foot tall rocket that roared off the launch pad only to
ditch the thing in the ocean or some such event and then do a
studio enactment. If NASA were to build such a machine, why fake
it? --- they might as well have gone all the way.
For a 5 years in the 90s I was employed in spacecraft
navigation. I worked the mechanics on how to get a spacecraft to
some orbit in space, whether around Earth or out into the solar
system, or to reach some other planetary body. I timed my visits
to the Kennedy Space Center to watch shuttle launches, one
landing and some Delta launches. This stuff is not faked. There
is in fact a visitor center where an unused Saturn V rocket is
displayed.
The idea that moon landings are faked is in line with other
historical denials, such as holocaust denial or that black
slaves in the south really enjoyed their status and so forth.
Conspiracy ideas and nonsense about alt-history or alt-science
such as creationism (even flat earth stuff is getting popular)
are growing in decibel volume these days. It is a sign the minds
of people, particularly Americans, are being rubbished up.
It is very sad sign that education has been lowering down for
sometimes. It confirms my feeling that fake theologies, like in
most religious institutions is a bad training in argument
per-authority.
We will leave the Middle-Âge and obscurantism when theology will
be returned back at the faculty of science, where we are humble
and modest, never claim truth, and propose theories with means of
evaluation.
The separation of science and theology has separated the human
and the exact sciences making them both inexact and inhuman.
Bruno
I would question to what extent theology has been ever a faculty of
science.
It has been, from Pythagorus (-500) to Damascius (+500), in occident,
and from +500 to 1248 in the Middle-east. In both occident and
middle-east, it has stopped due to the stealing of it by the temporal
powers, for private use (goal: to control people and steal their money
and means).
Since I presume most people on this list are Christian I will use that,
To be provoque a little, I like to say that christianise ended also in
+500. Before the closure of Plato’Academy in athene, christians were
divided into the neoplatoncian and the aristotelician. After,
Aristotle theology (the belief in a primary physical universe, or the
belief that the physical universe cannot be explained by something
simpler) has been made obligatory, or you would have been treated as
pagan theologian or heretics, and be exiled or burned alive.
where if you think about it Jesus turning water into wine is not
really that different an idea from Cinderella's fairy godmother
turning mice and a pumpkin into a team of horses bridled to a carriage.
If you give me an evidence that Jesus has transformed ware in wine,
the simplest explanation would be that Jesus is good in prestidigitation.
Like we can abandon our belief in a primary physical universe by
simple presti-digitalism. Universal numbers are very good in making
you belief that some dreams are real ...
In both instances you have some supernatural being, or a being
capable of supernatural powers, able to convert matter from one form
to another by shear force of thought or will. The difference is the
narrative about Jesus is offered up as absolute divine truth and the
story about Cinderella is a bit more honest and is framed as a fairy
tale.
There is no texts, nor myth when we do theology as a science, like the
greeks did for an entire millenium. At that time, theology was an
option after many years of mathematics, astronomy, music, etc.
Now with theology we can push this into metaphor, where Jesus making
wine out of water is symbolic of going from baptism to communion.
Lazarus being raised from the dead is also a suspension of natural
principles, where as the narrative has it Lazarus was pretty far gone
and dead for 3 days, but Jesus raising him from death. That violates
of course thermodynamic principles. The metaphor however could be
made this is about discarding old ways with dirty rags and decay for
a new sort of vibrant life. The three days also stand in for the
resurrection motif. I would though say that even if one does take
these are purely metaphorical that this is not so much science, but
rather language arts and literature.
I totally agree.
But to claim that we know that there is a primary physical universe is
the same pretension to know the truth, that only fake scientists and
fake philosophers/theologian would do.
But for the first 500 years, the intellectual christians were serious,
and were debating seriously about the existence of the physical
universe and the possible nature of God (material, arithmetical or
musical ?).
The very idea of “sacred text” is already a blasphemy in machine
theology, and in neoplatonism.
Let us not confuse “theology”, as a domain subject (the theory of
everything) and theology, the branche stolen by politicians to steal
money and get power. It is as different from health and heath
politics; which today have become antipodic.
Bruno
LC
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