> On 21 May 2019, at 17:50, howardmarks <[email protected]> wrote: > > That's the essence of it... not to confuse theology and ontology with a > search for the truth..
That’s it. Actually, whatever the domain of the inquiry is. Bruno > > On 5/21/2019 6:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 20 May 2019, at 14:18, Lawrence Crowell >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:55:19 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>>> On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected] >>>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>> I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. >>>> I asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot >>>> do it. What do you think ? Is this anecdote true ? >>>> >>>> When I was a kid I was big on the moon landing. We went on a vacation >>>> to Florida and saw one of the Saturn V rockets >>>> lift off. The thing is that if these were faked, then NASA built a 370 >>>> foot tall rocket that roared off the launch pad only to ditch the thing in >>>> the ocean or some such event and then do a studio enactment. If NASA were >>>> to build such a machine, why fake it? --- they might as well have gone all >>>> the way. >>>> >>>> For a 5 years in the 90s I was employed in spacecraft navigation. I worked >>>> the mechanics on how to get a spacecraft to some orbit in space, whether >>>> around Earth or out into the solar system, or to reach some other >>>> planetary body. I timed my visits to the Kennedy Space Center to watch >>>> shuttle launches, one landing and some Delta launches. This stuff is not >>>> faked. There is in fact a visitor center where an unused Saturn V rocket >>>> is displayed. >>>> >>>> The idea that moon landings are faked is in line with other historical >>>> denials, such as holocaust denial or that black slaves in the south really >>>> enjoyed their status and so forth. Conspiracy ideas and nonsense about >>>> alt-history or alt-science such as creationism (even flat earth stuff is >>>> getting popular) are growing in decibel volume these days. It is a sign >>>> the minds of people, particularly Americans, are being rubbished up. >>> >>> It is very sad sign that education has been lowering down for sometimes. It >>> confirms my feeling that fake theologies, like in most religious >>> institutions is a bad training in argument per-authority. >>> We will leave the Middle-Âge and obscurantism when theology will be >>> returned back at the faculty of science, where we are humble and modest, >>> never claim truth, and propose theories with means of evaluation. >>> The separation of science and theology has separated the human and the >>> exact sciences making them both inexact and inhuman. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> I would question to what extent theology has been ever a faculty of science. >> >> It has been, from Pythagorus (-500) to Damascius (+500), in occident, and >> from +500 to 1248 in the Middle-east. In both occident and middle-east, it >> has stopped due to the stealing of it by the temporal powers, for private >> use (goal: to control people and steal their money and means). >> >> >> >> >>> Since I presume most people on this list are Christian I will use that, >> >> >> To be provoque a little, I like to say that christianise ended also in +500. >> Before the closure of Plato’Academy in athene, christians were divided into >> the neoplatoncian and the aristotelician. After, Aristotle theology (the >> belief in a primary physical universe, or the belief that the physical >> universe cannot be explained by something simpler) has been made obligatory, >> or you would have been treated as pagan theologian or heretics, >> and be exiled or burned alive. >> >> >> >>> where if you think about it Jesus turning water into wine is not really >>> that different an idea from Cinderella's fairy godmother turning mice and a >>> pumpkin into a team of horses bridled to a carriage. >> >> If you give me an evidence that Jesus has transformed ware in wine, the >> simplest explanation would be that Jesus is good in prestidigitation. >> >> Like we can abandon our belief in a primary physical universe by simple >> presti-digitalism. Universal numbers are very good in making you belief that >> some dreams are real ... >> >> >> >> >> >>> In both instances you have some supernatural being, or a being capable of >>> supernatural powers, able to convert matter from one form to another by >>> shear force of thought or will. The difference is the narrative about Jesus >>> is offered up as absolute divine truth and the story about Cinderella is a >>> bit more honest and is framed as a fairy tale. >> >> There is no texts, nor myth when we do theology as a science, like the >> greeks did for an entire millenium. At that time, theology was an option >> after many years of mathematics, astronomy, music, etc. >> >> >> >>> >>> Now with theology we can push this into metaphor, where Jesus making wine >>> out of water is symbolic of going from baptism to communion. Lazarus being >>> raised from the dead is also a suspension of natural principles, where as >>> the narrative has it Lazarus was pretty far gone and dead for 3 days, but >>> Jesus raising him from death. That violates of course thermodynamic >>> principles. The metaphor however could be made this is about discarding old >>> ways with dirty rags and decay for a new sort of vibrant life. The three >>> days also stand in for the resurrection motif. I would though say that even >>> if one does take these are purely metaphorical that this is not so much >>> science, but rather language arts and literature. >> >> I totally agree. >> >> But to claim that we know that there is a primary physical universe is the >> same pretension to know the truth, that only fake scientists and fake >> philosophers/theologian would do. >> >> But for the first 500 years, the intellectual christians were serious, and >> were debating seriously about the existence of the physical universe and the >> possible nature of God (material, arithmetical or musical ?). >> >> The very idea of “sacred text” is already a blasphemy in machine theology, >> and in neoplatonism. >> >> Let us not confuse “theology”, as a domain subject (the theory of >> everything) and theology, the branche stolen by politicians to steal money >> and get power. It is as different from health and heath politics; which >> today have become antipodic. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> LC >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8720890-92d1-4a73-a041-fbe736f749ed%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8720890-92d1-4a73-a041-fbe736f749ed%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/FDF618A8-9A31-4A1C-BE3B-99D5A7F884F2%40ulb.ac.be >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/FDF618A8-9A31-4A1C-BE3B-99D5A7F884F2%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e3a1b92b-f402-1249-94c1-32e6fb1b6274%40doitnow.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e3a1b92b-f402-1249-94c1-32e6fb1b6274%40doitnow.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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