On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 1:34:31 PM UTC-6, howardmarks wrote:
ALL well-conducted experiments for psi (even experiments to test
for "spontaneous occurrences"), NO exceptions, has ZERO hits -
except for unprovable personal claims of "subjective experiences"
like Cosmin's and Grayson's. Any positive "reports" are either
_anecdotal_, very terribly performed under non-falsifiable
hypotheses, or the statistics of small numbers. The article Cosmin
gave below from NIH is typical. Extremely important tasks that an
honest experimentalist needs to do are to use a large N and
properly randomize (if statistics are employed), which are seldom
done. And, as Cosmin's article reports, often not taken adequately
into consideration are the candidate "telepath's" recent
experiences before the experiment that might color the results,
like "habituation", "priming", facilitation, recall, and
emotional experiences, etc. And, choice of targets for candidate
"telepaths" needs to be neutral, not, as Cosmin's article suggests
for instance, that "a target is a photo that candidates should
"psychically" decide depicts "happiness or sadness" "ugly or
pretty" or whatever.... Bad targets don't allow randomizing to
eliminate all types of emotional "noise."
Intentional or unintentional LYING by the experimenter (stretching
the data by the authors to support their beliefs, "cherry
picking", rejecting data, again to support the author's beliefs,
etc. are often never filtered out from a so called peer-reviewed
"report." NO, THE STATISTICS, FOR CAREFUL RESEARCHERS, MANY PhD's
and university degreed people, is ZERO. And often experiments that
were redone to "confirm" a reported "hit" also turned out to be
misses when fraud by claimant, cherry picking data, etc. were
eliminated.
Precognition? _How is it that truly anonymous precognition
hotlines on the internet, on which predictions are published
before the world and eliminate fraud, lying by the claimants, has
a hit or miss score of ZERO hits (??) with 100s of thousands of
submissions, maybe millions_?? (I gave one link to a
representative hotline elsewhere in this thread)._Even one hit
would bring it off ZERO_. Of course, a rich oink could have made a
prediction of some catastrophe, and later paid to cause the
prediction to happen --- but even that didn't happen... 5 or 6
figures to ZERO score for precognition. It doesn't take Wheeler to
figure out the statistics and p for a score of zero to any number....
I am qualified to report on what I say above and elsewhere on this
thread, as my father was a die-hard believer in PSI and I tried to
help him find people that could demonstrate.... Early on, as now,
I kept/keep an open impartial mind to new evidence. I met Randi,
CSICOP, CSI members that way, traveled to a few conventions the
believers had, in hopes of finding even one person who could
demonstrate PSI. Nyet. ZERO. Boo hao.... Is love excluded for
these people and organizations? You will find few individuals
with more love than those looking scientifically for a hit....
sorry Cosmin...
But, Cosmin, the "proofs" you say we (you) are always receiving
that you believe are "proofs" of telepathy - are definitely not
telepathy - and if you are honest, you might see they are
misinterpretations of "rapport" and "indentification," and other
physical communication between individuals.... This is super
easy to show - as for instance, if you claim to be communicating/
psychically communing with your girl friend, then it's easy to set
up experiments to isolate the experiences from chance and external
influences such as (but not limited to) both of you seeing a web
news story (or renditions of such), even far removed, as internet
is international, and reacting to it - then posting on facebook...
etc.. as you suggest..... And if you are honest, you gotta count
EVERY non-hit as well as the hits when you tally a score.... The
non-hits gotta be dozens per day. You are likely labeling
experiences you have as "psychic" when they are actually your
"stream of consciousness," ala' Dr James Joyce (also a psychic
researcher), working overtime.......
Cheers! Howard Marks
*I disagree with Cosmin. The proofs are exceedingly difficult to come
by, primarily because the experiences invariably involve specific
emotional states of the observers, sort of like a dream in the way the
communication occurs. I would doubt the phenomenon can be shown by
simple minded experiments involving statistics and predictions, like
what card will turn up in many trials. I can recall three such
experiences I've had, none of which I could reproduce due to the
special circumstances. AG*
On 10-06-2019 11:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
You are always receiving proofs, but you always mindlessly reject
them
because you are indoctrinated.
Bem did some experiments proving precognition. 90 other experiments ,
replicated those results. So where are those "ZERO people" that you
talk about ? Fake news much ?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/
<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706048/>
On Monday, 10 June 2019 12:45:28 UTC+3, smitra wrote: Prove your
points. On 6/10/2019 7:24 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:19 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:
>>>///I've had a few "telepathic" experiences/
>> There is a new job opening for a good telepath, the pay
is very good and the benefits are terrific. You know
where to apply.
/> We're not sufficiently evolved to make these phenomena
occur by an act of will. They usually occur when the
observer, or chance, sets up the subtle prerequisite
conditions without knowing exactly what they are./
It doesn't matter how rare it is, if the phenomena existed at all
it would show up statistically if you performed enough trials.
And every single day millions of people bet on the lottery and
it's easy to calculate how much money the state should make on
average each day if the telepathic effect was zero; and every day
that is indeed what turns out to have occurred. The outcome is
always consistent with the telepathic effect being zero. States
are so certain of the consistency of this revenue stream they
base their budgets on it.
And it's not just the lottery, the next time you go to Los Vegas
take a look at all those big beautiful casinos and ask yourself
where the money to build them came from. It came from the pockets
of people just like you who thought they were telepathic and
could beat the law of averages.
If it were real the existence of telepathy would have been
demonstrated to EVERYBODY'S satisfaction centuries ago, but
instead we are rehashing the same crappy anecdotal evidence we
were centuries ago and going nowhere.
John K Clark
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