On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 9:03:45 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 12:07 PM Jason Resch <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> On Sunday, August 25, 2019, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 5:50 AM Jason Resch <[email protected] >>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 3:10 AM Bruce Kellett <[email protected] >>>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 4:42 PM Jason Resch <[email protected] >>>>> <javascript:>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, do you think there is any important difference between a >>>>>> mathematical structure that is isomorphic to a physical universe and >>>>>> that >>>>>> physical universe? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes; the physical universe is self-sustaining, the mathematical >>>>> structure is not. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Why do you think this? >>>> >>> >>> Because the physical universe exists, and mathematical structures are >>> human constructs within this universe. >>> >> >> >> You are confusing mathematical structures with human descriptions of >> those structures. >> > > No, I am not confusing them. I am saying that mathematical structures are > nothing but the human descriptions of them -- they have no independent > existence. > > >> If there is evidence to disbelieve that other structures, different in >> form from our universe, exist, I haven't seen it. >> > > What evidence do you have that such structures, different in form from our > universe, actually exist? > > > >> Assuming both exist, is one capable of building conscious minds while the >>>>>> other is not? If one cannot, what do you think it is that >>>>>> "physicalness" >>>>>> adds which is not present in that mathematical structure which enables >>>>>> the >>>>>> physical one to hold conscious minds? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As I said; the physical structure exists independently, whereas the >>>>> mathematical structure is only an abstract construct, which does not >>>>> exist >>>>> independently of the mind that created it. >>>>> >>>> >>>> What's the difference between abstract and concrete? >>>> >>> >>> Things that exist differ from things that are only imagined. >>> >> >> But how do we know something is only imagined, versus we are imagining >> something that exists elsewhere? >> > > Do unicorns exist elsewhere? I think evidence plays a role here. > > > >> I think it's only a matter of relative perspective. Other universes to >>>> us seem abstract. While to people in other universes ours would seem >>>> abstract. Do you agree? >>>> >>> >>> What other universes? >>> >> >> Hypothetical ones. >> > > Hypothetical universes do not exist, by definition. >
They *might* exist, at least that's how I understand English. AG > > > >> Other universes, if they exist, are self-contained and do not interact >>> with our known universe. So speculation along these lines is fruitless, >>> even if not actually meaningless. >>> >> >> If you think so, why participate in this list? Other universes is the >> basis for discussion of the everything list. >> > > Maybe I participate to undermine people's naive faith that such other > universes do exist, or that the existence or non existence of other > universes can have any bearing on anything at all. > > Bruce > > > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 >> >> From: Wei Dai <http://www.weidai.com/> >> Subject: ANNOUNCE: the "everything" mailing list >> >> You are invited to join a mailing list for discussion of the idea that >> all possible universes exist. Some possible topics of discussion might >> include: >> >> - What is the set of all possible universes? >> - What is a reasonable prior/posterior distribution for the universe >> that I am in? >> - Why do we believe that both the past and the future are not >> completely random, but the future is more random than the past? >> - Before observing anything about the universe, should we expect it >> to have (infinitely?) many observers? >> - How can we/should we predict the future and postdict the past? >> >> Jason >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c4aa7e2f-048a-4e96-be66-1f97048f557b%40googlegroups.com.
