On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 9:30 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 8/25/2019 6:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sunday, August 25, 2019, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On 8/25/2019 12:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> What's the difference between abstract and concrete? I think it's only a >> matter of relative perspective. Other universes to us seem abstract. While >> to people in other universes ours would seem abstract. Do you agree? >> >> >> No. The difference is one of completeness. >> >> >> > I wasn't assuming incompleteness when I used the term abstract. That's why > I stipulated isomorphically identical. > > >> >> A abstract something is incomplete. The verb is "to abstract" meaning >> to leave aside irrelevant things. But a universe doesn' t have anything >> "left aside". That's why I look at it the other way around when you talk >> about a "simulation" that is isomorphic to our universe. >> >> > Could you clarify this point, I'm not sure I follow. > > >> If it's a *complete and perfect simulation*, then it's a universe >> itself. It can't be *just* a mathematical structure, it's identical to >> what you think it is "simulating". >> >> > Why can't a simulation be a mathematical structure? > > > It can. Like 2 is a simulation of pairs. But as a simulation it must be > relative to an environment which is not a simulation. Which means it > can't be THE reality. > > > If arithmetical realism is true and all programs exist as a consequence of math, then you might be able to say some instances are primitively real, supported by computational relationships between numbers. In that arithmetical platonia, you will also find some programs simulating other programs, and nestings of programs running other programs, to arbitrary levels of depth. At the basic level, they're all equivalently real, as they all share a common plane of existence stemming from the same source. So to say one is THE reality while the other nested simulations are not is a bit like splitting hairs. You could make the distinction, but from the inside you could never tell, and I am not sure it really matters. The only difference perhaps being that the simulations could end prematurely, while the base-level is guaranteed to run for as long as the program runs. Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUi6BZRz3w-SYkBFMpSvvnCp0vGXudh1OtNpGpLdiLvEpw%40mail.gmail.com.
