On 10/13/2019 7:36 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 12:00:53 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson
wrote:
On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:30:19 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:
On 10/12/2019 7:21 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 8:07:46 PM UTC-6, Brent
wrote:
On 10/12/2019 5:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
What does "realized" mean? made real?
Being real is a metaphysical concept. Bohr
never said anything about components of a
superposition being real. He famously said
“Physics is not about how the world is, it
is about what we can say about the world”
and “Everything we call real is made of
things that cannot be regarded as real.”
Brent
The latter comment is ridiculous. Aren't
protons, neutrons and electrons real?
Ask Bohr. You never answer my questions; why
should I answer yours.
Brent
What questions haven't I answered??? AG
Scan up until you see this symbol "?"
Brent
I explained what "realized" means by giving an example;
S's cat, alive and dead simultaneously.
That's a representation in the theory. Every measurement
that "realizes" its state finds it to be one or the
other. So what's the operational significance of "being
realized"? Schroedinger's whole point was that an alive
and dead cat is never /realized/.
Brent
As I previously suggested, since there is no operator that has
those cat states as eigenstates, S's example was probably
meant to falsify the then prevailing (and continuing)
interpretation of superposition, as it leads to an absurdity.
It's not just about the cat! But the case of spin could be an
exception to my general claim that it's a fallacy to interpret
a superposition to mean the system so described, is in all
component states simultaneously. AG
S's cat scenario was not simply about the fate of a cat. After
all, we already knew a cat can't be alive and dead simultaneously.
It must have been to show the fallacy of the prevailing
interpretation of superposition. AG
Incidentally, as I pointed out in a previous discussion of this issue,
decoherence doesn't help. Even though it is extremely rapid, say
10^(-20) sec, there is still a finite duration when, according to the
standard interpretation of superposition, the cat it is alive and dead
simultaneously. LC might see this as nit-picking, but it isn't. We
know a cat cannot be alive and dead simultaneously regardless of the
time duration, however short.
What are you talking about? Even when someone dies in a hospital,
hooked up to all kinds of electronic recording instruments, the time of
death can't be determined to the second, much less 1e-20sec.
Brent
So this result, when apply decoherence, doesn't avoid the
superposition fallacy illustrated by S's cat. It can be traced to the
interpretation of the superposition of (|decayed> + |undecayed>) of
the radioactive source. AG
Also, I said I would get back to you about spin
superpositions when I have time to research the issue.
Other than those items, I honestly have no idea what
you're complaining about. Try asking me again. AG
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