On 1/24/2020 2:40 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 3:16:19 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 1:56:02 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:
Carroll was pointing out the fallacy of the Platonist idea
that we achieve true knowledge by pure contemplation, i.e.
mathematics and philosophy, and are only deceived by the
senses.
Brent
/Carroll echoes Everett in contending that the key
mathematical expression in quantum physics, known as *the*
*wave function*, should be taken seriously. If the wave
function contains multiple possible realities, then all those
possibilities must actually exist. As Carroll argues, the wave
function is “ontic” — a direct representation of reality —
rather than “epistemic,” a merely useful measure of our
knowledge about reality for use in calculating experimental
expectations. In epistemic interpretations, “the wave function
isn’t a physical thing at all, but simply a way of
characterizing what we know about reality.”/
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/sean-carroll-something-deeply-hidden-quantum-physics-many-worlds
<https://www.sciencenews.org/article/sean-carroll-something-deeply-hidden-quantum-physics-many-worlds>
/When Weinberg promotes a “realist” interpretation of quantum
mechanics, in which “*the* *wave function* is the
representative of physical reality,” he is implying that the
artifacts theorists include in their models, such as quantum
fields, are the ultimate ingredients of reality -- thus
expressing a platonic view of reality commonly held by many
theoretical physicists and mathematicians./
/
/
/Many physicists have uncritically adopted *platonic realism*
as their personal interpretation of the meaning of physics.
This not inconsequential because it associates a reality that
lies beyond the senses with the cognitive tools humans use to
describe observations./
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/
<https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/>
@philipthrift
I don't get it. If Weinberg asserts that quantum fields are
ultimate ingredients of reality, what has this to do with platonic
realism? AG
If a quantum field (or any field, see "Timeless Reality" [chapter 10
"Dreams of Fields"] by Victor Stenger -
https://books.google.com/books?id=HbIVfL7KpqcC - for example) is just
a mathematical entity - a mathematical solution of an equation written
in a mathematical language - that (usefully) models something in
nature, then to "make it real" is platonism.
That's what Vic's books and articles are all about.
Vic wasn't right about everything. An elementary particle is an element
of a mathematical theory to. And the fact that particles appear simply
as a consequence of assuming an accelerated coordinate system, argues
for regarding them as excitations of a field which is then more
fundamental. What is considered real isn't some deep question to be
answered by meta-physical contemplation. It's just a choice, part of
choosing a theory. Vic emphasized operational the importance of
operational definitions; and the operational definition of "real" was it
kicks back when you kick it. But what counts as kicking and kicking
back is also theory dependent.
Brent
@philipthrift
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