> On 27 Apr 2021, at 15:53, Philip Benjamin <[email protected]> wrote: > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: RE: Mixed State vs Superposition of States for Schrodinger's cat > > [Philip Benjamin] > “No matter what people miss in notions of computer and computation as > arithmetical notions. Everything physical is DEAD, unless it is ENDOWED with > life”. > [Bruno Marchal] > “This looks like vitalism to me, frankly”. Also, you seem to assume a > physical reality out there. That requires to abandon Mechanism (and thus > Darwin, etc.). I find this very speculative. There are no evidences for > primary matter or physicalism. > [Philip Benjamin] > There is not a single man-created mechanism that has “life” or > reproductive-- genetically informed-- capability.
I don’t know that. I am not sure by what you mean by “life”. Personally, I consider that the artificial/natural distinction is … artificial. I consider a cigarette as a living organism, with a complex reproductive cycle involving humans... > Life ia always and everywhere an ENDOWMENT not an EVLOTION mechanism. > CpenPagan Interpretation is fundaMentally flawed. If you mean that Copenhague formulation of QM (often found in the textbook) is flawed, we agree. But with the methodology imposed by the Mechanist hypothesis, we cannot invoke the physical laws, unless the goal is to measure the degree of truth in Mechanism. The physical laws are “just” a deep invariant of the universal mind (the mind common to all universal machine or number, or combinator (which I am currently explains on Facebook, in case you missed my little course here some years ago). > Mixed State, Superposition of States, Many Worlds etc. follow from that. Many Worlds/histories/computations follows from 2+2=4, or from KKK=K, … I have conclude “many-worlds” well before discovering that some physicists were already there. In fact, I have been brainwashed myself into believing that the collapse was a physical phenomenon. I have thought that Mechanism could be false, due to that collapse, until I get Everett’s point, which shows that there are no empirical evidences for a collapse, nor for *any* “world" if we take that term is a naïve sense. > The Schrödinger Equation postulates properties of wave functions or the > probabilistic quantum states. Many Worlds essentially suggest that those > probabilities of the quantum State are all real and do not meld to one state. > They all become entangled with a version of reality generating the quantum > decoherence into different universes that branch off from each other to > create Many Worlds. That is the neo-vitalism. I don’t think so. It follows from QM-without collapse. That is why they have invented the collapse, to avoid the proliferation of histories. It is more coquetry than a reason. And then, it follows from something much simpler, like arithmetic + Descartes or Darwin. Darwin is extended up to the origin of the laws of physics, in a precise testable way, as physics becomes the science of inferring testable number relations which should be invariant of the observer (aka the universal machine). > There is no chemistry without physics and no biology without chemistry. I disagree. See my paper “Amoeba, Planarua and Dreaming Machine”. Chemistry is a mathematical persistent illusion among numbers. It is not ontologically real, but it is empirically real, yet purely phenomenological. The numbers (or combinators, …) are incredible gifted in prestidigitation. They are belief creators... > Many worlds will need Many World chemistry for Many Worlds biology. How can > mixed states or superposition of states CREATE life from imaginary waves? Because life is an imaginary wave, perhaps? It seems to be the case. All machine find quantum mechanics by introspection, it seems. (See my papers, as this is NOT entirely obvious,. Everett and most physicists miss this). > The de Broglie hypothesis is the idea that matter (anything with mass) can > also exhibit WAVEKIKE (not wavy) properties. It is a mathematical derivation > of wavelength of an electron by relating Albert Einstein's mass-energy > equivalency equation (E = mc2) with Planck's equation (E = hf), the wave > speed equation (v = λf ) and momentum in a series of substitutions. Here mc^2 > is replaced with mv^2, because massive particles do not travel at the speed > of light. E=mv^2 =hf, Since momentum p = mv, λ= h/p (or m = h/v λ). The mass > of the particle state is ALWAYS a reality here—perhaps even for corpuscular > light at an indeterminate decimal place--, assuring every HONEST scientist > that WAVELIKENES ≠ WAVINESS. Matter and light each has energy and momentum, > but light has a wavelength in addition. Therefore de Broglie thought that > matter may also have a wavelength. Remember, wavelength was thus artificially > assigned to a quantum particle. Though de Broglie's hypothesis has > experimental verification, it has unrealistic mathematical predictability of > wavelengths for matter of any size. Thus REALITIES rigorously limit it's > applicability. Ethical scientists will have to reject absurd results, instead > of religiously validating them as the only true worldviews. I do not assume QM. I cannot. I derive it as first person plural locally sharable qualia. Until now, both Gödel 1931 and QM (thanks to Everett confirm the admittedly shocking (for Aristotelian Materialists) immateriality and multiplicity of Mechanism. Technically, I assume only one elementary Church-Turing Universal machinery. I can derive all what I say from the two combinator axiom, and I can give an intuition why it has to work by demanding people to conceive, at least for the sake of the argument, that we can survive with an artificial digital computer-brain-body. > > > When scientists focus strongly on the high order ‘collective behavior’ > of complex systems, they often refer to them as truly emergent systems with > aggregate qualities more than the sum of the properties of the constituents. > Emergence of new properties is regardless of whether the system involved is > organic or inorganic. Well. Nice. So we might agree after all. > An extra-physical vitalis (vital force, entelechy, élan vital, etc.), as > formulated in vitalism by the highly influential Swedish chemist Berzelius > (1815). The laboratory synthesis of the organic compound urea from inorganic > ammonium cyanate (in 1828 by Friedrich Wöhler.) invalidated only that part of > vitalism which stipulated that organic compounds could be produced only by a > mysterious vital force existing in living organisms, It did not solve the > problem of transition (or transduction) of dead mechanism to live processes. > This vital force turned out to be the ordinary “heat” in the case of urea, > but “heat” will not create “life” in dead matter. How can a configuration of > dead electrons, protons and neutrons give rise to life? By heat? No way, Jose! I agree on this too. With mechanism, dead electrons and protons belongs to mathematics and to the number imagination. It is not like if we were in a video game, though, but we are in what emerge from all video games, which are all derivable from elementary arithmetic or any other universal machinery. > > According to Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy Bechtel (William > Richardson, C. Robert) DOI10.4324/9780415249126-Q109-1 > https://www.rep.routledge.com/articles/thematic/vitalism/v-1 > <https://www.rep.routledge.com/articles/thematic/vitalism/v-1>: “Vitalism has > fallen out of favor, though it had advocates even into the twentieth century. > The most notable is Hans Driesch (1867–1941), an eminent embryologist, who > explained the life of an organism in terms of the presence of an entelechy, a > substantial entity controlling organic processes. Likewise, the French > philosopher Henri Bergson (1874–1948) posited an élan vital to overcome the > resistance of inert matter in the formation of living bodies.” > https://slife.org/vitalism/ <https://slife.org/vitalism/> “John Scott > Haldane borrowed arguments from the vitalists to use against mechanism; > however, he was not a vitalist. Haldane treated the organism as fundamental > to biology: “we perceive the organism as a self-regulating entity”, “every > effort to analyze it into components that can be reduced to a mechanical > explanation violates this central experience”. The work of Haldane was an > influence on organicism. Haldane also stated that a purely mechanist > interpretation can not account for the characteristics of life.” Anyone claiming that a machine cannot do this, or experience that, have, I think, a pre-Gödelian, reductionist conception of machines and (natural) numbers. After Gödel, and using the greek theological terminology, we know that the machine have a soul, that they know that they have a soul, and that they know that this soul can refute all theories about her. The universal machine break all reductionism in philosophy of mind and biology/psychology/theology. After Gödel, +mechanism, we know that we cannot know what machine are capable of, and even less about what they are not capable of. Before Gödel, we thought that we could secure the use of the infinities through the finite realm. After Gödel, we know that even the realm of infinities cannot secure the machine; Best, Bruno > > Philip Benjamin > > From: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 9:07 AM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Mixed State vs Superposition of States for Schrodinger's cat > > > On 19 Apr 2021, at 19:51, Philip Benjamin <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > [Bruno Marchal] > “Good question. I can answer some of them in the frame of the > computationalist hypothesis. Everything physical emerges from arithmetic as > seen from inside in some mode of self-reference. What many people miss is > that the notions of computer and computation are an arithmetical notion. > Another “cultural” problem, since Aristotle, is the confusion between > the (many) evidences that there is a physical reality, and the (absent) > evidences that this physical reality is fundamental or primitive (= has to be > assumed, or = cannot be derived from less).” Bruno > > [Philip Benjamin] > Out of arithmetic only arithmetic can arise. Even that is questionable, > because all arithmetic about any physicality is already predetermined—nothing > new ARISES. > > After Gödel 1931, we know that this is plausibly false, and provably false if > we assume Mechanism. The arithmetical reality is out of time, so that in some > sense nothing new arise from the 0th person perspective, or God’s > perspective, … But for the internal perspective of any universal numbers *in* > arithmetic, not only something new arise, but there are an infinity of > surprises. No machine can get an effective theory about all the arithmetical > truth, nor even define it, despite the clear intuition that we can have. > Before Gödel, we thought we could build the mathematical edifice on the > “simple” arithmetical reality. > After Gödel, we know that we CANNOT use the mathematical edifice to get some > foundation of even the simple arithmetical reality, but by using stringer and > stronger theories, we can see a larger spectrum of the arithmetical reality. > > > > > No matter what people miss in notions of computer and computation as > arithmetical notions. Everything physical is DEAD, unless it is ENDOWED with > life. > > > This looks like vitalism to me, frankly. > Also, you seem to assume a physical reality out there. That requires to > abandon Mechanism (and thus Darwin, etc.). I find this very speculative. > There are no evidences for primary matter or physicalism. > > > > > > > Dead physicality is governed by binding energies including chemical energies > ruled by chemical laws of bonding encoded as duet and octet configurations of > particles of opposite spins. > > I can’t use this, as I do not assume anything primarily physical. > > > > > > Life cannot arise from DEAD physicality. > > > I agree. In fact life cannot arise from anything physical, as the physical > has to emerge from the machine’dreams/computations (and thus arguably life). > > > > > > Bohr was fundamentally wrong in introducing undefined subjectivity (whatever > that means) of living matter into quantum physics. > > > I agree. > > > > > Subjectivity is supposed to collapse a mathematical/statistical function, > which in turn causes subjectivity. Nothing could be more circular than that. > Moreover, if subjectivity affects a wavefunction either the former is also a > mathematical function or the latter has also subjectivity. Otherwise it is a > category error. A probability is a theoretical NUMBER which has no CREATIVE > powers and no aseity!! . > > OK (I guess for different reason than you). > > > > > Amplitudes do not change that status. It has now become one of the gods of > Western Acade-Media Paganism (WAMP). > There are only two cultures possible for the entire human race: 1 . > Pagan culture of un-awakened/kundalini/reptilian consciousness; 2 . Non-pagan > culture of awakened/quickened/regenerated consciousness. > > > Hmm... > > > > > > All the rest are sub-cultures of these two. > > > I would say that there are two sort of people. The con-artist who acts like > they have found it, and the researcher who propose theories, without ever > claiming them true, but on the contrary they propose verification test, and > are happy when when disproved, as they learn something. > > > > > > > Awakening in turn is historically of two types: 1 . Intrinsic-awakening, > through self-discipline, education and training of the mind. 2 . Extrinsic > awakening through extrinsic agents, as diverse as Eastern mystical powers > from a multiplicity of sources (such as TM, Yoga, mantras, occultism, > spirit-possession et.) and the Western Scriptural power of a Singularity of > Source [Adonai.(plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural, with Patriarchal, > Prophetic and Apostolic imprimatur). > Augustinian Awakening is that of the “inner man” > (journals.euser.org/files/articles/ejls_sep_dec_15/Halil.pdf > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.euser.org%2Ffiles%2Farticles%2Fejls_sep_dec_15%2FHalil.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc6eefddf6fdd423cc93008d906612202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637547836526346476%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=FYlsWxc9lsluS%2Bok1%2B222F%2BhG2LYaHZgP%2BjaHyY2Ruo%3D&reserved=0>; > > https://www.academia.edu/37733061/Saint_Augustines_Invention_of_the_Inner_Man_A_Short_Journey_to_The_History_of_the_Internality_of_the_West > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.academia.edu%2F37733061%2FSaint_Augustines_Invention_of_the_Inner_Man_A_Short_Journey_to_The_History_of_the_Internality_of_the_West&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc6eefddf6fdd423cc93008d906612202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637547836526346476%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2FMortd%2BBjLKN2Cn5pZ4ByxJi%2FoT34rPnI2rm8WK%2BVnk%3D&reserved=0>) > -- ROMANS Chapter 7 & 2 CORINTHIANS Chapter 4 > (https://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/THE-INNER-MAN-OF-ROMANS--AND-THE-INNER-MAN-OF--CORINTHIANS.HTML > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ministrysamples.org%2Fexcerpts%2FTHE-INNER-MAN-OF-ROMANS--AND-THE-INNER-MAN-OF--CORINTHIANS.HTML&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc6eefddf6fdd423cc93008d906612202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637547836526356428%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=0TVEAS8gHODLQPw9Vc3MFaaKcmzDvCr5yHgjk8TFVmM%3D&reserved=0>). > The only candidate for science today to explain the invisible “inner man” > will be Bio Dark-Matter with its bio Dark-Matter Chemistry (Spiritual Body or > Physical Spirit?: Bio Dark-Matter Chemistry, > https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Body-Physical-Spirit-Doppelganger/dp/1620061821 > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSpiritual-Body-Physical-Spirit-Doppelganger%2Fdp%2F1620061821&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc6eefddf6fdd423cc93008d906612202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637547836526356428%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=q2aB693muTCBKsYy5GDp%2FFiHBlH1%2FtRIvYyzArXLUeQ%3D&reserved=0>). > There will be “light-matter” and “dark-matter” twins cocreated from the > moment of conception, the former is electric, entropic and transient, the > latter is non-electric, non-entropic and enduring. The “inner man” then will > be the dark-twin, energized by external source of power. At death an > un-awakened ‘inner-man” will be at a negative energy state (- E= -mC^2, where > m is the body mass which will be the minimum energy needed to raise it to any > functional level). > Western Culture is a 3- rd- 4 -th Century Augustinian Trust > (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.midwestaugustinians.org%2Fconversion-of-st-augustine&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc6eefddf6fdd423cc93008d906612202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637547836526366387%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=wqRqGctEYUkfjwRPAThhoX2VA9cU23Tnl2YKAhRe40Y%3D&reserved=0>). > Augustine was a civilized, scholarly Phoenician pagan with Greco-Roman > roots, before his instant “transformation” that pulled the West out from > Greco-Roman pagan philosophies and mystical notions to that of a knowable > universe where the aseity belongs to a knowable Creator who self-reveals > through revelations. That was in line to the Apostolic identification at Mars > Hill discourse of the Athenian “unknown god” with the Resurrected Messiah > (Acts chapter 17: 16-34; > https://politicaltheology.com/the-politics-of-the-unknown-god-acts-1716-34 > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoliticaltheology.com%2Fthe-politics-of-the-unknown-god-acts-1716-34&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc6eefddf6fdd423cc93008d906612202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637547836526366387%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gkOt%2Ft7NGkGjk9Osjl%2BbYC8nnN3yL6obsUkB09n5vIM%3D&reserved=0>), > and opened up the channels of critical thinking necessary for explorations > in all fields especially science and technology. Here the Extrinsic Source > alone is the Dynamo of Regeneration. The Thomistic Scholarship, Reformation, > Puritan & Wesleyan Revivals, the Two Great Awakenings etc. are all offshoots > of Augustinian transformation , which all together produced the Western > Civilization—markedly different from the rest of the pagan world of wisdom. > It is altogether unlike the “Woke” sub-culture which is a constellation of > juvenile beliefs and attitudes that were carefully introduced into the > Augustinian West by WAMP-the-Ingrate. > Woke culture pretends to be compassionate, tolerant, altruistic and > intellectual. In fact it is glorified lethargy, dangerous illusion of > liberty, social justice and equality, that bestows social power to people > who are sycophants of the WAMP. It coerces the rest with very oppressive laws > based on fake or shallow and anachronistically misconstrued and passionate > issues of sexism, environmentalism, Jihadism, feminism, racism, etc.), > instead of facing the pain and tragedy in their own lives of addictions, > life-styles and miseries. “Woke” legitimately merits to be a pejorative term, > with its belligerent adherents willfully sticking to blatant lies of Marxism. > QAnon started as online posts by a shadowy figure named “Q”, suddenly > exploded into a cultish fringe movement that’s been dubbed as “extreme right” > — usually a typical Marxist tactics — and is now deemed a potential domestic > terror threat by some biased government agencies. The WAMP & the WOKE are > willfully ignorant of these historical facts: 1 . Slavery was for the first > time in human history abolished by law in the British Empire (the vastest, > strongest, greatest noblest—not perfect—ever on planet Earth), thanks to the > life-time effort of a Puritan MP, William Wilberforce protégé of the cleric > John Newton, 2 . Emancipation Proclamation was follower about six decades > later in Puritan America, 3 . Ocean routes to the East were necessitated by > the Jihadist blockade of all land routes through conquests, 4 . Women’s > Suffrage, Abolition of Child Labor, of Sati, of Foot-binding, propagation of > education, hospitals, charities, foreign aids etc. were biproducts of > Augustinian awakenings of the “inner man” (bio dark-matter bodies)—unheard of > before that in the world of conquests and dictatorships of un-awakened > consciousness!! 5 . Ecclesiastical authorities of Galileo times were only > defending the well-established ( and age-old) Ptolemaic science of those > days. > > Note: WAMP = Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism) > Philip Benjamin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/E5C41A9C-5BB2-4C0F-A403-ED153BC53D44%40ulb.ac.be.
