On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:54:04 AM UTC+3 Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:05 AM George Kahrimanis <geka...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> -2- The "box" (in which Scroedinger's cat is enclosed, with the lethal >> apparatus) contains also its "environment", so a quantum descrition of this >> box describes the environment also. Therefore I do not agree that >> decoherence INSIDE THE BOX will ruin the superposition ASSESSED FROM >> OUTSIDE THE BOX. So, Wigner was right. I suppose that Saibal also is right, >> though I have not checked that message (sorry). >> > > Unfortunately for this idea, decoherence does not stop at the box. In the > time that Wigner thinks about this before he opens the box, decoherence has > enveloped essentially the whole world, so Wigner himself has decohered into > either a world with a dead cat or a world with a live cat. He can't > dissociate himself from the split that occurs, so from his point of view > outside the box, the superposition is long gone, and he has to deal with a > simple classical state of either a dead cat or a live cat -- no > superposition remains. > I see we have converged on other technical issues, so maybe this works out, too. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough that the environment inside this "box" is isolated from the environment outside the box. Only then the cat is in a superposition as commonly understood. Otherwise we need the environment to define the superposition, which Saibal does in the recent messages, but I think it is pointless. So, I meant that Wigner is right but under this assumption only: of the two environments. I had always made a distinction between faster-than-light influences, which > are intrinsically local since they involve the local transfer of > information via some medium (albeit FTL), and non-local influences, which > do not involve any FTL transfers. They are instantaneous and non-local. So > that does not violate relativity. [...] > I cannot tell, from this brief comment, whether HV theories become more plausible in this way, but I will congratulate you if this is so. I am not ready though to enter this discussion now. George K. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7141de94-4ff7-48eb-a087-f6844bfd889dn%40googlegroups.com.
