It may not be "God" but it may, more significantly, be mind. If its a Boltzmann Brain who woke with false memories, and was the only BB in quintillions of years to successfully open and sustain itself (as has been proposed) I say, who am I to be disinterested, disrespectful, or reject it, him, her, them? The point would be, that it seems interested in what you do for a living, what an astrophysicist does to earn a paycheck, and this may be sufficient. It reacts and responds, apparently. This may also have impact on how fast information can actually travel, or what detects what some people are doing? I won't get into the probability that UFO's is the BB is interacting with subjects by giving us an anthropomorphic symbolism to gaze upon? My feeling is that people are more likely lying to get attention, than anything else, because lying works in so many other areas of human activity, so why not simply lie? Ball lightning created by piezo-electric geology thus becomes an alien intervention. I am primate-enough to enjoy the idea of a big mind, so for "God" us beggars can't be choosers, especially if He's got the time and interest to get things mended? For those who need this idea like a fork to the eye, I say, wonderful. Glad to hear that you have your emotions whipped into shape, because it sounds very healthy. No Problemo. Rock on!
-----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> To: Everything List <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2022 8:52 am Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What? I remember seeing this paper. I have not yet read it. I will say though that at a point where a system ceases to be Markovian, such as white noise or with Gaussian distribution of signals that are not correlated, and becomes sub-Markovian that you have the prospect for fluctuations or memory to propagate into the future. Fluctuations now have kurtosis of some sort. This is actually how evolution works. This is though not something that I think automatically points to some sort of God. LC On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 7:55:20 PM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: To my way of thinking, God as an answer, gets in scientists path to understanding how things work or interact? If God is an answer for everything, no wonder the Muslim's Insh Allah (God wills it) satisfied research inquiry. If God wills it and is the cause for everything than why study it? On the Udder Hand sez da Kozmic Kow, "If the Buddha stands in your path, strike him down." Meaning, if you got a better way, friend, don't let me stop you. For myself? I always seek what researchers say first most of time, because its less vague than the religious stuff and thus, more precise. Having said that there are a couple of stumble upons, one of which I present here. https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.03902 With this LC, you'll get to attack Smollin which may or may not be worth your while? But it is not the standard model of cosmology either and lends itself nicely, to the idea of a "big mind." It may not please the traditional religions, but who says they get to have all the fun? In religiosity, it seems closer to Brahma in the Hindu faith. Or, perhaps, the fellow Heston chatted with in 10 Com. "The light of eternal mind." Pretty good for 1956. Also, as I have noted before, if this is the fact, then you, as an atheist are in this fashion are one of the "holiest of humanity," because you study what the big mind does, up close. It may enjoy what you're doing as opposed to grubby, snot covered peasants, such as myself, busy claiming that "me neighbors a witch cause me pig gave sour milk!" As always suspicious of me neighbor,Spud (sniffling) -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> To: Everything List <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 10:07 am Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What? In the end one can ask, "What is the purpose of God (Allah or Ha Shem etc)?" It is similar to chasing the existential core down an infinite rabbit hole, maybe to become Dostoyevsky's underground man. There are no possible answers that can be rationally derived. Monotheist religions posit a disembodied conscious entity of infinite capacity, which because there is an infinite number of what might be called degrees of freedom virtually anything can be explained within the umbrella statement "God did it." There are no need for theological constructions. These ancient ideas are mythic narratives or so called wisdom literature meant to invoke metaphorical ideations. These things have nothing to do any scientific understanding. LC On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 8:25:01 PM UTC-5 Samiya wrote: Space: Before and Beyond Abstract The Quran hints on the existence of something prior to the creation of the heavens and earth. Full Text وَمَا خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاءَ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا لَاعِبِينَ لَوْ أَرَدْنَا أَن نَّتَّخِذَ لَهْوًا لَّاتَّخَذْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا إِن كُنَّا فَاعِلِينَ Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between! If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)! [Al-Quran 21:16-17, Translation: Yusuf Ali] According to these ayaat, there is something, some place other than the heavens and the earth, which has existed since before it. It is outside what we call Space. In fact, regarding space, it states: وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ And the heaven We constructed it with strength, and indeed, We (are) surely (its) Expanders. [Al-Quran 51:47] Surah ad-Dukhan (The Smoke) again states that these heavens and earth are not without purpose: وَمَا خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا لَاعِبِينَ مَا خَلَقْنَاهُمَا إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ We created not the heavens, the earth, and all between them, merely in (idle) sport: We created them not except for just ends: but most of them do not understand. [Al-Quran 44:38-39, Translation: Yusuf Ali] The Quran mentions the HOW of the creation of the heavens and earth, but it focuses on the WHY. While it is fascinating to wonder about the HOW, it is important to focus on the purpose and consequent final outcome: الَّذِينَ يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ قِيَامًا وَقُعُودًا وَعَلَىٰ جُنُوبِهِمْ وَيَتَفَكَّرُونَ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ رَبَّنَا مَا خَلَقْتَ هَٰذَا بَاطِلًا سُبْحَانَكَ فَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّارِ رَبَّنَا إِنَّكَ مَن تُدْخِلِ النَّارَ فَقَدْ أَخْزَيْتَهُ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ Those who remember Allah standing, and sitting and on their sides and they reflect on (the) creation (of) the heavens and the earth, "Our Lord, not You have created this (in) vain. Glory be to You, so save us (from the) punishment (of) the Fire. Our Lord, indeed [You] whom You admit (to) the Fire then surely You (have) disgraced him, and not for the wrongdoers (are) any helpers. [Al-Quran 3:191-193, Translation: Yusuf Ali] For more on purpose, please read Teleology: A purpose-built Universe? Science Scientist do not know if there was something before the 'Big Bang', the most popular theory about the origin of our Universe. Wikipedia states: Pre–Big Bang physics (PBBP) are physics which can be speculated to have existed prior to the Big Bang. PBBP may have been radically different from the current laws of physics. Although theoretical speculation on possible PBBP has only begun, research into the field could hold incredible implications for the makeup of the universe, and numerous possibilities beyond the limit of the current laws of physics in possible existence prior to the Big Bang. https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2019/01/space-before-and-beyond.html On 01-Jul-2022, at 2:29 AM, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> wrote: I do not want to get into this terribly much, not because of lack of interest (this is connected to what I work on) but more because a sense of futility. There is one difficulty with all of this; inflation stretched space into a homogenous space that bears little data concerning what came before inflation. Any fluctuation associated with the state of the cosmos prior to inflation has been stretched to scales that may bear imprints on the CMB or they may even be larger. If this cosmos in the inflationary or pre-inflationary stage interacted with other vacuum bubbles or there were other quantum gravitational physics it might have an imprint on the CMB. The structure of anisotropies of the CMB temperature or amplitude does contain some statistical kurtoses that may indicate something beyond a white noise or Gaussian spectrum. LC On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 1:23:58 PM UTC-5 medinuclear wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/what-scientists-think-the-universe-was-like-before-the-big-bang/[Sean Carroll & Jennifer Chen]“But is it possible that something could have existed before the Big Bang? After all, something couldn't have come from nothing, right? It turns out the answer is a bit complicated. For example, theoretical physicist (astronomer?) Sean Carroll at the California Institute of Technology and his colleague Jennifer Chen have created their own theory for what may have occurred before our universe. Their paper on the subject, published in 2004, suggested that our universe could have been created as a result of a piece of space-time splitting from a parent universe(via Cornell University)”.[Philip Benjamin] Science is about observation, experimentation, logical analysis and rational inferences. What is the observation here? Only the universe as is! Nothing else. Does any sentence above obey the basic laws of logic, such as Law of Noncontradiction, Causality, Infinite Regress, Aseity etc.? Why can’t scientists be logical, rational andhumble enough to at least admit that human mind is finite and science is incomplete, imprecise and indefinite. Nobody even knows what precisely even Big Bang is! Where did all that energy come from? Now to add to this irrationality, where did theparent universe come from? Philip Benjamin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/66946837-2807-4f75-89ea-11a1cd4d5c38n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3cd2d32e-a65c-46bd-baa0-96badebc708fn%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/989b95c4-961e-46f8-acb6-991a2c4f218an%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1842178950.208930.1656885076422%40mail.yahoo.com.
