@John. As I say in the paper: " "Correctly, self-reference cannot be spoken of. But even saying “self-reference cannot be spoken of” is an utterance about it, so not even such a sentence can be uttered. Even naming it is faulty. Not even saying “self-reference” is correct. Is a very peculiar states of affairs. On the one hand, we cannot speak about it, on the other hand, this “entity” (wrong again, because not being spokeable-about, we cannot call it “entity” either) is responsible for bringing consciousness into existence. Some might wonder, if we cannot speak about it, why are we sure that it is the one that brings consciousness into existence. The reason we can do this is because we observe the phenomenology of qualia (like inclusion and transcendence of levels) and conclude that this is possible only if some entity that we call “self-reference” must “exist”." "
On Wednesday 26 June 2024 at 22:17:10 UTC+3 John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:01 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > > *> Self-reference on the other hand, is a 1st person entity >> all-throughout. It is not a 3rd person entity like “sentence”* > > > "Every rule has an exception" does not contain the word "sentence ", and > although it is not JUST talking about itself it is nevertheless clearly > talking about itself because it is a rule. And I don't see anything > incoherent in that. > > And if language is incapable of talking about self reference without > becoming "incoherent wordplay" as you claim, then how were you able to > write an entire paper about self reference without it becoming "incoherent > wordplay"? > > John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > e4r > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c0f83300-7483-4a4c-9203-eeabe35aa07en%40googlegroups.com.
