Up. On Thursday 27 June 2024 at 17:43:15 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote:
> I offer this with all sincerity: I mean no disrespect, and I have nothing > against you personally. I do see why my comment about your paper being > "speculative" comes across as disrespectful, so please accept my apologies. > It's true that I haven't given your paper the attention required to make a > judgment like that. > > If you're willing to continue with me, then please understand that I'm > someone who has to be pretty selective about how I allocate my time and > energy. Engaging with me means engaging with someone who is not going to > read your paper in its entirety until I know it's worth my time. Thus far > my comments/questions have been about testing to see if it *is* worth my > time. If *that* comes across as disrespectful, then let's just move on. > Otherwise, please give me the grace to come from misunderstandings that > need correction, and please correct my misunderstandings without resorting > to insults. And I will avoid jumping to conclusions. If we can do that, > maybe we can both benefit from a discussion. No hard feelings either way. > > Terren > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 5:17 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> @Terren. You clearly don't know to use the computer. For example, mouse >> has a wheel. If you use that wheel, page moves. When page moves, new things >> appear in the page. Like for example part 2 of the paper. Also, in case >> your mouse doesn't have a wheel, there is also a scrollbar on the right >> side of the window. If you click on that scrollbar and keep the click >> pressed, you can then move the scrollbar up and down. By moving the >> scrollbar up and down, new things appear in the page. Like for example part >> 2 of the paper. >> >> Also, the fact that you call it "speculative", only shows that you are >> full of hatred and are unwilling to engage. Then your presence is pointless >> on this topic. Why are you here ? To freely hate on people ? Pathetic. >> >> On Wednesday 26 June 2024 at 15:51:48 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >> >>> That paragraph is not in the paper you posted (here >>> <https://philpapers.org/archive/VISHSB.pdf>) >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 3:25 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Some might wonder, if we cannot speak >>>> about it, why are we sure that it is the one that brings consciousness >>>> into existence. The reason >>>> we can do this is because we observe the phenomenology of qualia (like >>>> inclusion and >>>> transcendence of levels) and conclude that this is possible only if >>>> some entity that we call “self-reference” >>>> must “exist”." >>>> >>> >>> I don't know what you mean by "inclusion" or "transcendance of levels", >>> so it's not clear why self-reference must exist for qualia. >>> >>> >>>> I understand that we live in an age where attention span has been >>>> reduced to 5 seconds. Nothing wrong with that. But if that is your >>>> attention span, then you should employ it for tik-tok videos. Other >>>> subjects require a different attention span. >>>> >>> >>> That's just unnecessary. At least I'm engaging with your paper. And, for >>> what it's worth, I'm busy. Having something like Claude that can summarize >>> 17 pages of speculative philosophy is the only way I was going to do that. >>> >>> Terren >>> >>> >>>> On Tuesday 25 June 2024 at 21:32:24 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>>> From your paper, you define self-reference as: "Let self-reference be >>>>> the entity with the property of looking-back-at-itself." >>>>> >>>>> Your definition invokes the concepts *entity*, *property*, >>>>> *looking-back*, and *itself*. That's a lot of complexity for >>>>> something that is fundamental. It's easy for me to imagine *entities >>>>> *with different *properties* (i.e. that don't *look-back-on-itself), *but >>>>> only because I'm starting from a linguistic perspective that already >>>>> defines *entities *and *properties, *and *looking-back-at-itself.* >>>>> You don't have that luxury. If you want to derive everything from a >>>>> monism, >>>>> you cannot define that monism in terms of concepts imported from a >>>>> different metaphysics or conceptual framework. *Entities *and *properties >>>>> of looking-back-at-itself *must be defined relative to your >>>>> fundamental monism. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> @Terren. There is no "self" and "ability to reference". There is just >>>>>> self-reference. You can call it hampty-dampty if you want. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday 25 June 2024 at 20:01:24 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I read enough to confirm that you postulate self-reference as >>>>>>> fundamental - the entity upon which everything else can be built. I'm >>>>>>> wondering how that can be fundamental if it requires two components >>>>>>> (self, >>>>>>> and the ability to reference). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:32 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The proper understanding happens by reading the paper, not by using >>>>>>>> hallucinatory objects to give you a devoid of meaning shortcut. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday 25 June 2024 at 16:42:11 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I used Claude Sonnet to summarize your paper. Tell me if any of >>>>>>>>> this misses the mark, but the paper appears to posit >>>>>>>>> *self-reference* as fundamental, upon which all other aspects of >>>>>>>>> reality are derived. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If so (this is me now), my first thought is that self-reference >>>>>>>>> cannot be fundamental, because it already presupposes two distinct >>>>>>>>> components: a "self" and the capacity to "reference". Worse, defining >>>>>>>>> "self" (something to be derived) in terms of "self-reference" >>>>>>>>> (fundamental) >>>>>>>>> is circular. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Terren >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 9:09 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I invite you to discover my paper "How Self-Reference Builds the >>>>>>>>>> World" which is the theory of everything that people searched for >>>>>>>>>> millennia. It can be found on my philpeople profile: >>>>>>>>>> https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4f13128c-5b63-422f-a6cb-4c3eb4f3618cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4f13128c-5b63-422f-a6cb-4c3eb4f3618cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ea01c75c-3cdd-4d9e-9ced-eb184ae03777n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ea01c75c-3cdd-4d9e-9ced-eb184ae03777n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d91bb4ab-d34c-4508-9fa8-7278599ff78en%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d91bb4ab-d34c-4508-9fa8-7278599ff78en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/72e3472c-faf4-4cc2-b12c-b661189f4b98n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/72e3472c-faf4-4cc2-b12c-b661189f4b98n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e4dbcb1c-1219-4d8e-b87a-daa0e61ac228n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e4dbcb1c-1219-4d8e-b87a-daa0e61ac228n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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