On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 1:58 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote:
*>>> ** I think such foresight is a necessary component of intelligence, >>> not a "byproduct".* >> >> >> >>I agree, I can detect the existence of foresight in others and so can >> natural selection, and that's why we have it. It aids in getting our genes >> transferred into the next generation. But I was talking about consciousness >> not foresight, and regardless of how important we personally think >> consciousness is, from evolution's point of view it's utterly useless, >> and yet we have it, or at least I have it. >> > > *> you don't seem to think zombies are logically possible,* > Zombies are possible, it's philosophical zombies, a.k.a. smart zombies, that are impossible because it's a brute fact that consciousness is the way data behaves when it is being processed intelligently, or at least that's what I think. Unless you believe that all iterated sequences of "why" or "how" questions go on forever then you must believe that brute facts exist; and I can't think of a better candidate for one than consciousness. *> so then epiphenomenalism is false* > According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy "*Epiphenomenalism is a position in the philosophy of mind according to which mental states or events are caused by physical states or events in the brain but do not themselves cause anything*". If that is the definition then I believe in Epiphenomenalism. > *> As you said previously, if consciousness had no effects, there would be > no reason for it to evolve in the first place.* > What I said in my last post was "It must be because consciousness is the byproduct of something else that is not useless, there are no other possibilities". *> There is another possibility: consciousness is not useless.* > If consciousness is not useless from Evolution's point of view then it must produce "something" that natural selection can see, and if natural selection can see that certain "something" then so can you or me. So the Turing Test is not just a good test for intelligence it's also a good test for consciousness. The only trouble is, what is that "something"? Presumably whatever it is that "something" must be related to mind in some way, but If it is not intelligent activity then what the hell is it"? John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3kar8%3De8dFmYXiBLzY-29kYGKyk%2BnNF9xuhK3m_qipEQ%40mail.gmail.com.
