I second that!!!! Greg Householder [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: Mellott, Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:06 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Oh my GOD! you guy's still beating this dead horse..... How does this at this point relate to exchange? let it go I think the snow and cabin fever is getting to you guy's bill -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects There is no other way to say this except that you are wrong. Lawyers have written-down ethics that they must follow or face the consequences. These ethics are NOT personal, they are the ethics of the profession. Go talk to a lawyer about the difference. > You really believe that how many lawyers do you know? > Ethics is personal not Professional > > > > > > > Joshua Morgan > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:54 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects > > > The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. > > > Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a=20 > > lawyer. > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects > >=20 > >=20 > > Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: = > > > You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in=20 > > things like "The Purple Pill" well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers = > > > and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist,=20 > > Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer.... And to say that Doctors, = > > > Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk = > > > into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You = > > > could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a=20 > > profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist=20 > > to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is = > > > beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. > >=20 > > Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in=20 > > please find something else to do. > >=20 > >=20 > > Joshua Morgan > > Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the=20 > > time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, = > > > PHD or anything. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Joshua Morgan > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects > >=20 > >=20 > > This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our=20 > > industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get "Microsoft=20 > > certified". But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor=20 > > gets certified in "The Purple Pill". That's nonsense, but that is how=20 > > the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not=20 > > based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If = > > > we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people=20 > > getting certified in "Email" and "Network OS", etc. But we do not,=20 > > everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry=20 > > wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on=20 > > par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE=20 > > impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people=20 > > traveling around in our "medicine" wagon peddling snake oil and other=20 > > remedies to cure all your ills. > >=20 > > > I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the=20 > > > accountability =3D lapse in our profession is because of the paucity = > > > > of meaningful =3D credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and = > > > > then (potentially) =3D get board-certified in his or her specialty. = > > > > Same with medical doctors. =3D Same with psychologists. Aside from = > > > > the CCIE program and very few =3D others, the certification process = > in=20 > > > our industry is ludicrous and =3D meaningless. As long as "built a=20 > > > Quake server in my parents' garage" is =3D considered a credential,=20 > > > and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are =3D considered credentials, = > the=20 > > > problem will exist. The other problem that =3D goes hand-in-hand = > with=20 > > > this is that hiring authorities for some reason =3D believe that = > they=20 > > > can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications =3D based upon=20 > > > buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and =3D "years = > of=20 > > > experience." Then they get some monkey that crammed for a =3D week = > to=20 > > > get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a =3D=20 > > > tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a=20 > > > =3D broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =3D20 > > >=20 > > > I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = > =3D > > > objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = > =3D > > > probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and=20 > > > shaped =3D in such a way that my coffee gets cold. > > >=20 > > > -tom > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM > > > Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List > > > Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects > > > Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. > > >=20 > > > Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing.=20 > > > Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite=20 > > > another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is=20 > > > with the second. > > >=20 > > > There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is=20 > > > having =3D an independent governing body that defines and enforces = > the=20 > > > "rules" and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible=20 > > > failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only=20 > > > real professions that meet all of the definitions are military,=20 > > > medical, lawyers and to a =3D lesser degree accounting and=20 > > > engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only=20 > > > profession that truly meets all of the =3D requirements. > > > In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, = > they =3D > > > are > > > answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of = > conduct =3D > > > and > > > enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the > > > military's justice system. > > >=20 > > > We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on > > > our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us = > > > > to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for=20 > > > free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners = > have > > > no such ethical constraints. > > >=20 > > > Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their > > > governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in=20 > > > their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a=20 > > > conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than=20 > > > others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed=20 > > > treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The = > difference > > > is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a = > huge > > > problem, in IT it is not. > >=20 > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >=20 > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
