On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:06:52 -0700 Vincent Danen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
This msg is intended to rock the boat, shake the tree, whatever... I'm in
no mood tonight for posturing, "be kind to Mdk", whatever... I'm making
this point one last time because I *CARE*; use it or lose it.
[Note to Todd: feel free to terminate this thread anytime :]
> On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 08:35:18PM -0500, Pierre Fortin wrote:
> > Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a
> > release?
>
> This you'll have to ask the developers. I'm sure most use the
> applications they're in charge of. Some likely don't (I, for myself, am
> the maintainer of mailman and don't use it... one reason I've been
> trying to pawn it off on someone who does actually use it because I know
> I'm the worst person to package it).
Look... all I'm suggesting is that before a prog is released, if someone
just tried to start it before packaging/releasing it, a lot of time
wouldn't be wasted
- downloading it
- installing it
- trying it
- <BOOM aka segfault, missing libs, whatever...>
- reporting it
- discussing it
- starting all over
- etc
multiplied by the number of testers involved. Then, even worse,
N_testers==0 (not even a token "start" by the maintainer) and it's
released in this untested, unworking mode...
The Linux community (testers and/or users) as a whole does not need its
collective time wasted in this way... if the maintainer had released an
update to ohphone, without even going into all the other 9.0 issues I've
had, I would have worked to get more customers... but NO, the next thing
I hear is how Mdk needs money...
I've made it clear since the release of 9.0 that IMO, it's the worst
release ever from Mdk... if 9.1 continues to make it difficult for
someone like me to help get more customers, then you've not only lost me,
you've lost some future sales, and maybe some repeat sales.
And NO, I can't be doing that and cooker testing too... All I expect is a
reasonably working release and ***updates when required***. If those
updates don't come, then I can't in good conscience migrate someone to
Mdk... (one exception; see below).
> > All I've been asking is that Mdk help** _us_ help Mdk grow _their_
> > business...
> >
> > ** or at least, not place/perpetuate roadblocks in our way... no,
> > rebuild per box is not a scalable answer...
>
> Errr... can you rebuild on one box and copy the rebuilt packages to the
> other? I'm not really sure what you're talking about here on a "rebuild
> per box".
How do you propose I do that in this scenario... I convince someone to
make the switch, send them some CDs and sufficient information to get
started and online. Then I connect remotely and help with the setup,
answer questions, etc...
Did I mention that these people are hundreds of miles away...?? With only
one phone line...??
Have you tried to "talk" someone through something, when they've barely
got the system working in that situation? Until 8.2, I could drop icons
onto their desktop and and have them click on "ohphone" and *talk* to
them... sure beats IM, IRC, chat, e-mail... especially when you can have
them tell you (verbally) what they're doing as-they're-doing-it instead of
"try it, hangup, call me, try to describe it, ...".
Phooey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I must've written a full chapter of this book already on this OHPHONE
issue since the release of 9.0
ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE IMPROPERLY BUILT PACKAGE HAD
SIMPLY BEEN RE-COMPILED WITH THE ***CORRECT*** COMPILER AND PUT OUT AS AN
UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Anyways, I don't personally know anything about ohphone. I also wasn't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ARGH! Why do people go through so much discussion, only to say
this????????
> asking for bug reports. If you have a fix for something, please provide
> it.
My *fix* as an END-USER is to report the problem and apply an update...
I've MORE than done my part on the first step; but I'm STILL waiting for
the update -- which surely won't come now that 9.1 is on the horizon.
> Errata, by what I'm referring to, is the stuff that goes on our errata
> pages. Ie. "this doesn't work out of the box, so configure it this way"
> or the like... see the current errata pages for an example of what I'm
> referring to.
PLEASE.....! Go to the maintainer of ohphone for 9.0 and follow exactly
what happened, why it happened, how it got reported, what the answer was,
why I replied "**I** was not the one who compiled it wrong", what the
response was, and then... what happened after... never mind the last step
(answer==nothing). Then, watching over the maintainer, have the problem
corrected, and document every step... then tell me how EACH AND EVERY
[mostly new] **end-user** wanting/needing this product should be expected
to do that...
Sure _I_ could figure out how to do all that; but it's time away from
trying to gain new converts... but that's Mdk's choice; just don't come
whining to me any more about needing funds!
> This kind of report obviously belongs on the cooker list or bugzilla,
> and was not what I was asking for.
Check the archives!!
I'll make a deal with you.... if 9.1 doesn't restore my ability to HELP
MDK GROW *IT'S* CUSTOMER BASE, then I will simply resume my efforts, BUT
WITH 8.2!! Every one I convert onto 8.2 will be one sale that COULD have
been a 9.1 sale....
Look... I'm sure there others who think like this; but don't want to rock
the boat... my attitude is simple: if you don't care enough to rock the
boat once in a while, you just don't CARE.
'nuf said.
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
