On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 01:07:12AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:29:16 +0200:
> > Linux companies are a necessary evil in my eyes. They're needed to
> > help prevent monopolies from drowning the software world in
> > proprietary lock-ins, as unfortunately, you need money for that.
> > But they're not the essence of the movement in my opinion.
> > They also provide convenience, something I have appreciated in the
> > past and still do appreciate.
>
> You seem to forget some of the essential parts. What about the Open
> Source projects which are sponsored by Linux companies? You may ask
> yourself how far Linux would have evolved was it not that the main
> leaders (Linus et al) were sponsored by companies. Linus is a good
> example. He said Bye to Transmeta and stated explicitely that he
> appreciated the way Transmeta did not force him to work for his pay but
> let him as much time for Linux as he wanted/needed.
>
[several examples for companies helping]
>
> Without the companies backing them up many developers of the Linux
> community would have to work on other stuff to earn their pay and so the
> projects they work for would have been delayed or not possible at all.
I concede the point that those companies have helped greatly. However,
I see to aspects: Some projects, as you say, would have been delayed -
but nonetheless, they would still have happened, just slower. As for
the projects that wouldn't have been possible: Correct me, if I'm
wrong, but I think many of those included stuff, where proprietary
things were involved - stuff, that had to be done from business to
business. That's another aspect of what I mean with necessary evil.
You're right that it couldn't have been done without them, but I still
think it's a pity that it has to be that way.
On the other hand, seeing that other projects (e.g. OpenBSD) can
thrive without all those companies involved, there seem to be other
ways as well.
> > On the other hand, with business comes vested interests and efforts to
> > influence the whole thing, to use, and maybe even ab-use it
> > (Caldera/SCO, anyone?).
>
> Sure, but why do you name just the most commercial? Why do you mix up
> Mandrake with other companies which always had a straight commercial
> poin of view?
I was using Caldera/SCO as an example for the extreme this *can* lead
to. It was not my intention to suggest that Mandrake (or even Red Hat
or SuSE) are in that league, and I sure hope they will never be. But
seeing those extremes does make me wary.
> > Till then, it's the download version for me, knowing,
> > that Mandrake at least still gets some money out of it.
>
> Nobody denies you that. How could anybody? Download versions have been
> free (as in free beer) all the time.
<g> I always wondered why of all words "free" is one that's defined so
poorly in the English language, while that language can be so subtle
otherwise. Amazing. :-)
> What you are saying is, now that the download version is polluted with
> ads you can use it without having a moral obligation to pay something
> for it, be it money or be it your time and talents.
>
> And this is IMHO at least debatable.
See, I was afraid someone would do what you're doing here: You're
turning my argument around by 180 degrees. I'm *not* preferring the
download version because it still generates revenue for Mandrake while
being cheaper for me. If you think that, I don't think you've read my
previous mail well enough. I using the download version, because I
*refuse* to pay for the boxed version the way Mandrake is planning to
release it (i.e. with third party advertising). I even suggested an
alternative: Release a fully ad-free version for 10% extra and watch
me buying it... :-) If there wasn't a download version, I'd simply not
use Mandrake in this case, simple as that. But the download version
exists and the product is good enough, so I use it. This is just my
way of telling Mandrake that they *can* have more money from me, just
not this way.
Regards,
Thomas
--
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Thomas Ribbrock http://www.ribbrock.org
"You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"
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