Chuck, please take a rest, you really are in over your head here...
The AMA Super Stockers can only run stock internals, and a 800# or 900# car
vs a 600# bike and rider???
There is no 2 stroke replacement for the class, maybe a rotax 492??? If you
were to keep with the sled theme, the next logical choice would be a 4 stroke
sled motor.
It's been stated by others, the alienation of the class is due to the CVT
drive, so motorcycle power would make more sense if your trying to revive the
class, imho....
Chris R.
Chuck Voboril <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chris,
Just trying to compare apples to apples.
You admit to a series of wrong choices for aftermarket rods.
Your AMA is also a MC organization and they don't stress the motors or
tranny's like a car chassis and added mass and drag does. The car also
forces the motor nearly upright thus complicating oil control.
I agree with you that correct build-up diminshes the MC motor breakage, but
as you say, it costs $.
F500 2-strokes don't appear to require aftermarket rods and pistons.
Your bike motors are just fine as they are being used, but I still doubt
they are a proper replacement for 2-strokes in F500.
To each their own.
Chuck
>From: Chris Reinhardt
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: [F500] F100000000
>Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 16:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Chuck, I have been building my own bike motors for well over 10 years. I
>have seen rods come through the blocks, before we switched to Carrillo's,
>then Falicon's, and now Crower's. If you're planning on making the big
>power, it's pretty easy to plan for it, it only takes $$$$$. Oh yah, all
>my motor's stay together and they set lap records.
> Anybody that runs less that a 1mm piston to valve clearance, is an
>idiot! That's close to .040" ...
> I'll show a current 600 bike with a redline of 14k plus, i'll put it on
>the limiter and hold it there, and walk away, they don't blow up that easy.
> Don't believe me, look at a AMA pro superbike or super stock race,
>when's the last time you saw a bike retire with a rod through the block???
> The west racing IMSA lights car uses a wet sump, there's really no
>reason to run a dry sump. They have a special billet oil pan that's
>baffled and holds more oil, but still a wet sump.
> Anything else I can help you with?
> Chuck, get with the times....
>
> Chris R.
>
>
>Chuck Voboril wrote:
> Chris,
>Yeah, they are engineering mavels, but they still come apart.
>Over-rev a MC motor enough and they certainly will bend valves and maybe
>even ventilate the block with their rods. Especially one that only has
>10-20 thou piston to valve clearance in an attempt to get that 30HP you
>talk
>about.
>
>I know that those who ran built 1000cc Kaw Nija motors 10 years ago were
>able to bend almost all the valves at once up by over-revving with a missed
>shift, even with a rev limiter. And those were pro-built motors by Jack
>O'Malley of Orient Express on Long Island.
>
>Beasley, Lee tohr, Small Fortune all sell dry sump systems to fit the bike
>motors in their chassis.
>
>
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Chris Reinhardt
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: [F500] F100000000
> >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > Chuck stick to weed eaters!!! It takes a pipe and chip to get 10hp out
> >of 1 liter sport bike.... 30hp, that's a different story. This bike
>motors
> >can run all day long at red line, provided they have good oil pressure.
> >You can't even compare those engines to anything else other than another
> >bike motor. Truly marvels of engineering...
> >
> > Chris R.
> >
> >Stan wrote:
> > The people writing the rules have not forgotten their physics, which is
> >why the draft rules require stock bore, stroke, CR and ECU. The final
>draft
> >may require stock internals as well, though this is still under
>discussion.
> >Will there still be differences in engine performance? Sure, but that
> >situation exists today in DSR with their $12,000 engines and doesn't seem
> >to be a show stopper. Besides, the only way to achieve perfect engine
> >parity is to require a single-source sealed engine, which isn't going to
> >happen for a variety of reasons. In the end, perfection isn't required.
> >This is a builders class, and people preparing a car for it will have to
> >make informed decisions.
> >
> >Stan
> >
> >Chuck Voboril wrote: Jay is right on. A lot of money is necessary to get
> >that extra 10HP out of
> >those highly stressed and advanced motors. Or, at the same peak HP, to
>get
> >more reliable service or broader HP and more torque out of them.
> >
> >With restrictors, a built bike motor that makes more HP over a broader HP
> >range WILL indeed still accelerate faster even if peak HP is the same as
> >other motors. I see very high compession build-ups of those street
>engines
> >being the primary trick in an intake restictor class.
> >
> >People who advocate restrictors generally also forget their physics and
> >that
> >torque is what determines ultimate top speed, not HP.
> >
> >Running at the edge with MC power, one probably just trades broken rings,
> >bent valves, broken rods, and broken tranny gears for the cooked rings
>and
> >piston tops in a 2-stroke. :->
> >
> >To each their own!
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
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> >Content preview: The people writing the rules have not forgotten their
> >physics, which is why the draft rules require stock bore, stroke, CR and
> >ECU. The final draft may require stock internals as well, though this is
> >still under discussion. Will there still be differences in engine
> >performance? Sure, but that situation exists today in DSR with their
> >$12,000 engines and doesn't seem to be a show stopper. Besides, the only
> >way to achieve perfect engine parity is to require a single-source
> >sealed engine, which isn't going to happen for a variety of reasons. In
> >the end, perfection isn't required. This is a builders class, and people
> >preparing a car for it will have to make informed decisions. [...]
> >
> >Content analysis details: (3.1 points, 5.0 required)
> >
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> >1.0 SUBJ_ALL_CAPS Subject is all capitals
> >-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
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> >0.2 DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE RBL: Envelope sender in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org
> >1.4 DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS RBL: Envelope sender in whois.rfc-ignorant.org
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>---------------------------------
>Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
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>Spam detection software, running on the system "tucson.proadmin.com", has
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>
>Content preview: Chuck, I have been building my own bike motors for well
> over 10 years. I have seen rods come through the blocks, before we
> switched to Carrillo's, then Falicon's, and now Crower's. If you're
> planning on making the big power, it's pretty easy to plan for it, it
> only takes $$$$$. Oh yah, all my motor's stay together and they set lap
> records. Anybody that runs less that a 1mm piston to valve clearance, is
> an idiot! That's close to .040" ... I'll show a current 600 bike with a
> redline of 14k plus, i'll put it on the limiter and hold it there, and
> walk away, they don't blow up that easy. Don't believe me, look at a AMA
> pro superbike or super stock race, when's the last time you saw a bike
> retire with a rod through the block??? The west racing IMSA lights car
> uses a wet sump, there's really no reason to run a dry sump. They have a
> special billet oil pan that's baffled and holds more oil, but still a
> wet sump. Anything else I can help you with? Chuck, get with the
> times.... [...]
>
>Content analysis details: (3.6 points, 5.0 required)
>
> pts rule name description
>---- ----------------------
>--------------------------------------------------
> 1.0 SUBJ_ALL_CAPS Subject is all capitals
>-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
> [score: 0.0000]
> 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
> 1.4 HTML_10_20 BODY: Message is 10% to 20% HTML
> 0.2 DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE RBL: Envelope sender in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org
> 1.4 DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS RBL: Envelope sender in whois.rfc-ignorant.org
> 1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST RBL: Envelope sender in
> postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org
> 0.5 SARE_HTML_MANY_BR05 Tooo many
's!
> 0.0 ADVANCE_FEE_1 Appears to be advance fee fraud (Nigerian 419)
>
>
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>FormulaCar Magazine - A Proud Supporter of Formula 500
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Content preview: Chuck, please take a rest, you really are in over your
head here... The AMA Super Stockers can only run stock internals, and a
800# or 900# car vs a 600# bike and rider??? There is no 2 stroke
replacement for the class, maybe a rotax 492??? If you were to keep with
the sled theme, the next logical choice would be a 4 stroke sled motor.
It's been stated by others, the alienation of the class is due to the
CVT drive, so motorcycle power would make more sense if your trying to
revive the class, imho.... [...]
Content analysis details: (2.6 points, 5.0 required)
pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
-2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
[score: 0.0000]
0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
1.4 HTML_10_20 BODY: Message is 10% to 20% HTML
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