I'm just an autocrosser but I very much support this direction. It's exactly the plan we need and the implementation sounds just like I would want to do it. I would even be willing to contribute $$ to independent dyno testing provide I could get the results.
It's kind of funny how autocrossers aren't at all considered in the SCCA's national classes. Fmod, our class at nationals was the largest modified class at Nationals last year. Unlike most solo mod classes we have been growing in size. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >IMO, I believe that Jack's post here is the most practical way to move forward >for 3 reasons: > >1. It allows a choice as I stated in my original email that restarted this >discussion. For those that like it the way it is, no change except adding >shocks. For those of us who don't, we change and stay in the class. >2. It doesn't try to change everything at once, only motor and shock. Our >changes have to be significant enough to address the major problems, yet >gradual enough where they can be accomplished. >3. Those familiar with Jack know that he has financial/mechanical/technical >resources to make this happen and is willing to invest in it, will do it in a >professional manner, is asking for others to join in a committee for oversight >and probably the most important - has genuine credibility among the community >and will conduct what he proposes here in fairness to all. > >Count me in. > >Jay Stroud >ATL Region >#25 > >-----Original Message----- > > >>From: John Walbran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Mar 14, 2007 9:59 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: [F500] F500/600 Proposal for Survival and Growth >> >>We have more than one issue and we have to get focused now on solutions. >> >>Only numbers can assure our RunOffs position -- so we all know the answer to >>the first issue: go racing. On that front, Rusty Cook and I will >>contribute at least 18 Nationals this year. We lost a double National to a >>blizzard that buried our rig, but we've changed our schedule to make it up. >>>From the discussion here, I'm confident everyone else will heed Stan's >>warning and get us through this year. >> >>If, however, we want to move away from the precipice, I think we have to >>confront the harder issues of attracting new class members faster and >>providing assurances of continuous engine availability. As I see it, we >>have to capture far more karters and far more SAE graduates, while enhancing >>our appeal to others with the open wheel, but low budget, affliction. We're >>just not doing that fast enough the way we are going. >> >>And we have to assure those new folks that motors will be available. On the >>latter front, I did give Tony an open order for 5 493s, but no one else >>placed an order by his January 15 cut off date -- so, at least formally, his >>factory arrangement is over. He has told me that, if we put together a 15 >>motor request in the near future, he'll try to work something out with >>Rotax. Let me know if anyone wants to join me in an interim deal of this >>kind (see e-mail addresses and phone numbers below). In any event, you all >>know how this reads to a newcomer: what's going to happen next? We may >>very well know that remanufactured short blocks and used motors can carry us >>at the current level for years, but that's just not reassuring to newcomers. >> >>I'd like to step back, to provide some perspective, and then make a specific >>proposal to get us launched. >> >>What I thought I heard at the RunOff's meetings was that the club was >>striving to create the national classes that it believed met two criteria: >>one, classes that conceptually covered the full spectrum of road racing >>activity, and, two, that could reasonably be expected to generate the >>greatest interest and the increasing participation required to continue to >>keep a class in the top 24 that would qualify it for the RunOffs as the >>club's numbers continued to expand. >> >>I think I also heard that Formula Continental and Formula Mazda had made (or >>had made for them) engine decisions which appeared to be raising their >>costs, lowering their participation, and, generally not meeting the Club's >>long term numbers criteria. This led to establishing F1000, a motorcycle >>engined, winged class which it appeared would better serve the long range >>objectives -- because it offered self adaptive long term performance for the >>money in the mid-level winged formula car space. That takes care of the "B" >>car that is expected to survive. >> >>"A" is Atlantic, however it evolves as the premier formula car. And FV will >>be allowed to survive as an eccentric one off -- for so long, of course, as >>it makes its numbers. >> >>You then reach a "C" car, an entry level class, a smaller, less expensive >>formula car without wings. It could, as I think Stan has suggested, be FF >>based, as the F1000 was Continental based, but that would encounter two >>problems as I see it. First, FF is as dug in with its motors as Continental >>is, and, thus, might best be left to run that way for so long as it meets >>the numbers. Second, if you go with that size car, you're really specifying >>an F1000, just without wings, but, probably, with a 600cc bike motor. I >>think that's a much more expensive car than you need  probably 50% more all >>in -- making it, with reduced performance, an especially hard sell when >>compared to an F1000, for which you're also simultaneously trying to build >>RunOffs numbers. >> >>That leads me to F500. Many believe that what the class needs to really >>take off again is a 600cc bike motor with an integral 6 speed transmission. >>Quite a few believe that a spec, coil over type shock would be a very >>desirable feature as well. I now believe both that these are correct >>assessments, and that, in contrast to 13 inch wheels, both of these >>modifications could be incorporated in virtually all the current, nationally >>competitive cars without complete reengineering. >> >>This leads me to propose a new, evolved class: F500/600. There would be no >>changes to the current F500 spec other than the allowance of (a) a 600cc >>bike motor and/or (b) the spec shock, both at the competitor's election. >>(Specifically, all other defining dimensions, including wheel/tire size, >>would be retained, as would the solid rear axle.) This would preserve the >>existing cars, so that the class would not slip out of the RunOffs -- if we >>get our act together now. >> >>I propose that any 600cc bike motor in absolutely stock configuration >>(except for racing clutches, if elected) be permitted. This parallels the >>already approved F1000 motor approach. Based on the SAE experience with >>these motors over many, many years, I would, if needed, impose an intake >>restrictor tube, just as SAE does, to "equalize" performance both (a) among >>the bike motors, and (b), even more importantly for this concept to work and >>sell to the class, with the current Rotax motors. (I would use the 493 for >>equalization testing purposes.) >> >>If we can reach a consensus in a timely manner, I am prepared to sponsor a >>reasonable amount of independent dyno work to define this motor concept this >>year, as well as to build a prototype (using a Maverick chassis, which is >>substantially the same as a Scorpion underneath the skin) that could be >>tested this season against several nationally competitive cars/drivers to >>finalize a restrictor tube selection, if needed, and car weights. >>Conceptually, for weights (including driver), I propose starting with >>600cc/850pounds; 493-494/800pounds; other (AMW, KAW, Chapparal)/750 pounds. >> >>I'd appreciate your specific thoughts on this proposal, including proposed >>membership of a class committee to oversee the motor and shock testing and >>selection, and what more Stan thinks we have to do to make it happen, >>hopefully for 2008. >> >>Jack Walbran >>F500 #67 >>Office: 314-259-2959 >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Home: 314-962-9989 >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of jwhit.vcf] ________________________________ FormulaCar Magazine - A Proud Supporter of Formula 500 The Official Publication of Junior Formula Car Racing Subscribe Today! www.formulacarmag.com or 519-624-2003 _________________________________ _______________________________________________ F500 mailing list - [email protected] To unsubscribe or change options please visit: http://f500.org/mailman/listinfo/f500 *** Please, DO NOT send unsubscribe requests to the mailing list! ***
