Great interest here. I do not want to dilute interest in this discussion but I suggest that we move this discussion to the Eformularcarnews F500 Forum. It is MUCH EASIER to deal with the format & reduces the e-mail influx.
I just posted a comment along with a copy of Jacks post with a few additional headers in the post. http://www.eformulacarnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=587 or http://www.eformulacarnews.com/ See forums at the top. We can of course double post both here & the Enews forum. Thanks ... Jay Novak -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:16 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [F500] F500/600 Proposal for Survival and Growth Yes, I agree with Jack's proposals but have a few of my own thoughts as for resurrecting the F500 class. I am getting my recommendations together and will post them shortly. Jim Elder > > From: "John Walbran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/14 Wed PM 08:59:32 EST > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [F500] F500/600 Proposal for Survival and Growth > > We have more than one issue and we have to get focused now on solutions. > > Only numbers can assure our RunOffs position -- so we all know the answer to > the first issue: go racing. On that front, Rusty Cook and I will > contribute at least 18 Nationals this year. We lost a double National to a > blizzard that buried our rig, but we've changed our schedule to make it up. > >From the discussion here, I'm confident everyone else will heed Stan's > warning and get us through this year. > > If, however, we want to move away from the precipice, I think we have to > confront the harder issues of attracting new class members faster and > providing assurances of continuous engine availability. As I see it, we > have to capture far more karters and far more SAE graduates, while enhancing > our appeal to others with the open wheel, but low budget, affliction. We're > just not doing that fast enough the way we are going. > > And we have to assure those new folks that motors will be available. On the > latter front, I did give Tony an open order for 5 493s, but no one else > placed an order by his January 15 cut off date -- so, at least formally, his > factory arrangement is over. He has told me that, if we put together a 15 > motor request in the near future, he'll try to work something out with > Rotax. Let me know if anyone wants to join me in an interim deal of this > kind (see e-mail addresses and phone numbers below). In any event, you all > know how this reads to a newcomer: what's going to happen next? We may > very well know that remanufactured short blocks and used motors can carry us > at the current level for years, but that's just not reassuring to newcomers. > > I'd like to step back, to provide some perspective, and then make a specific > proposal to get us launched. > > What I thought I heard at the RunOff's meetings was that the club was > striving to create the national classes that it believed met two criteria: > one, classes that conceptually covered the full spectrum of road racing > activity, and, two, that could reasonably be expected to generate the > greatest interest and the increasing participation required to continue to > keep a class in the top 24 that would qualify it for the RunOffs as the > club's numbers continued to expand. > > I think I also heard that Formula Continental and Formula Mazda had made (or > had made for them) engine decisions which appeared to be raising their > costs, lowering their participation, and, generally not meeting the Club's > long term numbers criteria. This led to establishing F1000, a motorcycle > engined, winged class which it appeared would better serve the long range > objectives -- because it offered self adaptive long term performance for the > money in the mid-level winged formula car space. That takes care of the "B" > car that is expected to survive. > > "A" is Atlantic, however it evolves as the premier formula car. And FV will > be allowed to survive as an eccentric one off -- for so long, of course, as > it makes its numbers. > > You then reach a "C" car, an entry level class, a smaller, less expensive > formula car without wings. It could, as I think Stan has suggested, be FF > based, as the F1000 was Continental based, but that would encounter two > problems as I see it. First, FF is as dug in with its motors as Continental > is, and, thus, might best be left to run that way for so long as it meets > the numbers. Second, if you go with that size car, you're really specifying > an F1000, just without wings, but, probably, with a 600cc bike motor. I > think that's a much more expensive car than you need probably 50% more all > in -- making it, with reduced performance, an especially hard sell when > compared to an F1000, for which you're also simultaneously trying to build > RunOffs numbers. > > That leads me to F500. Many believe that what the class needs to really > take off again is a 600cc bike motor with an integral 6 speed transmission. > Quite a few believe that a spec, coil over type shock would be a very > desirable feature as well. I now believe both that these are correct > assessments, and that, in contrast to 13 inch wheels, both of these > modifications could be incorporated in virtually all the current, nationally > competitive cars without complete reengineering. > > This leads me to propose a new, evolved class: F500/600. There would be no > changes to the current F500 spec other than the allowance of (a) a 600cc > bike motor and/or (b) the spec shock, both at the competitor's election. > (Specifically, all other defining dimensions, including wheel/tire size, > would be retained, as would the solid rear axle.) This would preserve the > existing cars, so that the class would not slip out of the RunOffs -- if we > get our act together now. > > I propose that any 600cc bike motor in absolutely stock configuration > (except for racing clutches, if elected) be permitted. This parallels the > already approved F1000 motor approach. Based on the SAE experience with > these motors over many, many years, I would, if needed, impose an intake > restrictor tube, just as SAE does, to "equalize" performance both (a) among > the bike motors, and (b), even more importantly for this concept to work and > sell to the class, with the current Rotax motors. (I would use the 493 for > equalization testing purposes.) > > If we can reach a consensus in a timely manner, I am prepared to sponsor a > reasonable amount of independent dyno work to define this motor concept this > year, as well as to build a prototype (using a Maverick chassis, which is > substantially the same as a Scorpion underneath the skin) that could be > tested this season against several nationally competitive cars/drivers to > finalize a restrictor tube selection, if needed, and car weights. > Conceptually, for weights (including driver), I propose starting with > 600cc/850pounds; 493-494/800pounds; other (AMW, KAW, Chapparal)/750 pounds. > > I'd appreciate your specific thoughts on this proposal, including proposed > membership of a class committee to oversee the motor and shock testing and > selection, and what more Stan thinks we have to do to make it happen, > hopefully for 2008. > > Jack Walbran > F500 #67 > Office: 314-259-2959 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Home: 314-962-9989 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jim Elder Dolphin Motorsports (800) 759-0064 -- No virus found in this incoming message. 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