Chris,
Just don't let your tone get away from you and you should be able to discuss
things anywhere.
I know it is easy to let your passion take over-
However, it is worth trying because a good discussion usually helps everyone
learn.
I'm currently considering ceasing participation on this list and NOT signing
up on the eforumula site.
I will probably continue low level particpation on Apexspeed and the DSR
list.
I can't take on one more list/site-especially since eformula apears to be
redundant to the more mature Apexspeed site.
Hopefully, I can then concentrate on finishing my new car before I am too
old, fat, dumb, and blind to drive :->
Chuck
From: Chris Reinhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [F500] RE: Fud for discussion
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 04:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
Chuck, lets take this discussion to the eformula site, I get yelled at
everytime we argue...
CR
Chuck Voboril <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chris,
Why wouldn't an experienced race car fabricator use a Accumsump if it would
help him save the motors? I've used then myself, and I know they have
limitations.
Now, as to Microsprints:
A circle track pan is easier to baffle for oil control because the corners
are all the same direction. The pickup can be off to one side with almost
twice as much oil available to it with a one way door.
Then, What makes you think that all the corners are all short enough in
road
racing and cornering g-force low enough to permit a accusump band-aid to
supply oil long enough in road racing when the pickup is uncovered?
Some road race corners are as long as some entire circle tracks and the
occassional long straight at peak RPM can pump the pan down low before even
entering the long corner.
Accusmped Honda motors have blown-up (seized bearings, then thrown rods)
even in short solo corners from oil starvation. (Tage Evanson, for example)
And that was with a well baffled and doored pan. Lotsa transient sloshing
with air in the oil.
A large dry sump tank allows the air to be separated from the oil before it
goes into the pressure pump.
I kindly suggest that you get your car finished instead of spending your
time here and run a bunch of road courses, show proof of competitive
G-forces and lap times then come back with a solution.
I honestly hope you can help the F500 guys find a proper choice of 4-stroke
and help them understand how to make it live on all road courses so it all
works out.
Chuck
>From: Chris Reinhardt
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [F500] RE: Fud for discussion
>Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 20:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
>
>OK Chuck I'll bite.... Did you ask how many of those blown up wet sump
>motors had a $175 Accusump? How many of those motors were 600's? Did you
>ask around and see any 600 Micro's that had the same problem???
>
> CR
>
>Chuck Voboril wrote:
> Dave,
>
>Here goes... roughly in your order :->
>
>I would not say that 4 strokes suck, but they are nothing special either.
>I've gone and asked around to verify that I was correct in cautioning
>people
>on 4 strokes needing dry sumps.
>
>You can add that expense and the dry sump's extra weight to Jay's 50#
>estimated overall extra weight for a 4 stroke
>
>The Wests that CR mentioned still lose R1 motors. One lost 2 motors at
one
>event.
>
>In SCCA homologating a car only applies to the chassis. There is nothing
to
>keep one from using a dry sump if the drawings submitted showed a wet
sump
>motor. Not sure what the homologation routine is in IMSA.
>
>Phoenix Race cars designed their new F1000 chassis to accept a wet or dry
>sump motor, but they say one would have to be a slow driver or penny-wise
>and dollar-foolish to run a wet sump R1.
>
>Every race shop I have spoken with says any motor with oil that must be
>recycled from the crankcase instead of bring burned needs a dry sump if
the
>car makes much more than about 1.2 G.
>(FF1600 is at 1.6G). Not to say someone may get a really well designed
>baffled sump and accusumo to work-but I bet it won't work everywhere nor
on
>all motors. Gven a long enough corner, all accusmps run out of oil.
>
>Shifting is OK but nothing special either.
>
>If gear ratios are to be stock-then I can see people doing engine swaps
>between different brand 4 strokes depending upon the track.
>Probably should settle upon one brand and model 600cc motor.
>
>Shocks are good to have to improve safety, also good to learn on for
those
>with real pro class racing ambitions. Probably more important to
understand
>than moving a gearshift lever.
>
>
>IMHO below-not official view of MAC:
>120 HP should be the driveable target HP for Vees.
>
>There have to be some reminders on limitations on the 1600cc 10:1 setup
>with its non-stock valves and more carb choices so that it will not be
>clearly superior to the 1915cc 9:1 single carb, stock valve choice.
>
>The present SV rules plainly do not allow any chamber work and this
should
>not be changed IMHO. The larger 1915cc bore does not inherently unshrould
>the valves. The shrouding is from the deep chamber sides next to the
>valves, not the bore.
>
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Dave Phaneuf
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: [F500] List still active?
> >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:50:48 -0400
> >
> >Chuck,
> >Still alive, just nothing to bitch about at the moment. I'm sure you
>could
> >start something, maybe like... 4 strokes suck, shifting sucks, shocks
> >are a waste of money, and the new solo vee's will make 155HP!
> >....... ducking till Monday.
> >Dave Phaneuf
>
>
>
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