--- In [email protected], off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "Alex Stanley" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], off_world_beings > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I think that it is inevitable that everyone will have to live > > > off the grid with some minimal use of machines, but limited > > > usage of machines and very low-impact environmentally. > > > Otherwise Earth will throw us off. I am aiming to live off the > > > grid quite soon. But I will keep my car, which is a drug to us. > > > Hopefully cars will be non-polluting and non oil based one day. > > > > IMO, a good start would be to extract ourselves from addiction to > > foreign oil, and one potential technology is thermal > > depolymerization, which can take any carbonaceous feedstock > > (agricultural waste, animal guts, sewage, trash, etc.) and turn it > > into oil and other byproducts. The benefit of such technology is > that > > it would use the existing fuels infrastructure (as opposed to > > hydrogen, which will require both generation and distribution > > infrastructures be built from the ground up). Although it is still > a > > carbon based fuel, at least it doesn't release any more fossil > > carbon. See: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization > > > > http://www.changingworldtech.com/ > > > > Alex > > > > > Sounds like a great solution. > Thanks for posting this. I have been thinking about this a lot > lately since I heard one state was doing it but forget where. I > think turning trash and sewage into oil (with zero-emmisions energy > plants, as I believe they are) is one of the most promising things > to happen in a long time. Couple that with low emission autos and it > will solve a lot. > > I think these plants could be a very good business for people, since > many states are desperate to know what to do with trash (no-one > wants it in their home town anymore), not to mention the selling of > the oil that is produced. > Thanks again for posting this !
from the first cite: Final cost is $80 a barrel, making it uneconomic compared to conventional diesel selling for about $50 a barrel. Bio mass projects generation projects have been subsidized and promoted in california, and elsewhere, since the 70's. However, absent large subsidies, its not cost-effective compared to other generation fuels. At least until fossil fuels are priced appropriately -- that is to include all their externalities -- that is the additional costs that the market does not capture -- such as pollution, mining degradation, safety risk (explosion, terrorists, etc), national security and defense, trade deficits, etc. However, natural gas is the fuel of choice for most new electric generation -- and has been for some time. It is relatively abundant and has much lower externality costs than oil. So even true pricing of NG with externalities, will probably not make bio mass competitive with it for electric generation. As a gasoline substitute -- a lot of interesting work is going on like use of disgarded fat fryer oil used in making french fries. And the exhaust smells like french fries. (Though "promoting" deep frying of food and the horrendous effect the resulting trans-fatty acids have on the body is not exactly a panacea.) Also some bio mass, or at least bio fuels -- crops grown to extract their energy content, such as corn in Iowa, take almost as much, in the past more, energy to manufacure -- full cycle, than they produce. So its not really a strong solution if you look at the full cycle costs and results. Such projects have for 30 years been political boondoggles, saturated by heavy pork barelling -- a big waste of tax dollars -- and a source of great political corruption. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
