(Note that Barry will almost certainly read Sal's post but not my response, and will use Sal's post to try to further demonize me.)
--- In [email protected], Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:45 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > And this after he's already handed the antichoice > > side a huge win by *accepting* the role that the > > guilt imposed by the antichoice folks plays for > > many women in making the decision to abort so > > difficult, as I pointed out in another post that > > Barry conveniently ignored. > > Um, Judy, maybe I missed something, but nowhere in Barry's > post that I could see did he mention guilt, and nowhere did > he say he thought they felt guilty about it. Here is the > part I think you were referring to: [quoting Barry:] > Mainstream, have you ever been the guy > helping a woman to get through an abortion? > > From the way you speak, I have to imagine > that you have not. I have, several times. And > none of the fetuses in question had the slight- > est DNA link to my own. I tried to help the > women through a painful experience because > they were in pain and I wanted to help, in > any way I could. > > One of the only ways in which I found that I > *could* be helpful was just not to judge. > > I'm sorry, but there is just one enormous load > of judgment in your statement above. It's in > the second and third words of the sentence. > > "'Wanton disregard' of the fetus?" > > How about wanton disregard of the carrier of > the fetus? > > It is *not* as if abortion is an easy decision. > You're trying to make it sound as if it is one. > > I'm sorry, but if you had been the shoulder to > cry on for as many women who have made the > decision to have an abortion as I have, I don't > think you'd talk the way you did above. [end Barry quote] > I don't see guilt there--do you? It's right there in front of both our noses, Sal. It's in the third paragraph of your quote from Barry's post, as we'll see. > What he says, and what I would agree with, is that the > experience is painful, and that the decision is "not easy." > I would disagree with the latter and say that in many cases > the decision probably is easier than one might think, but > that's just my surmise--I wasn't there with the women Barry > was lending his support to. > > But the entire experience no doubt is frequently painful, having > little to do with the actual decision, which presumably had been > made days or weeks before. Why did Barry need to be there at all, > for one thing? Where were the fathers? Presumably not there with > the women, supporting them. And maybe not helping to pay for it > either. IOW, AWOL. That alone could make it a very painful > experience, all other things aside. > > And then there could be physical aftermaths as well. > Maybe "painful" is too loaded a word, but all sorts > of things could make it a not-so-wonderful experience. > One thing is near-certain in most cases, and that it > is not a walk in the park, as you would like everyone to > believe so you can once again dump on someone. Nowhere did I suggest it was a "walk in the park" or a "wonderful" experience. You made those up. What I said in my earlier post (did you read it?) was that there was no basis for its being a *traumatic* experience unless the woman had really wanted to bring the fetus to term. If the father is "AWOL" and that's emotionally distressing to the woman, that's a problem with the relationship, not with the abortion. My point is that in most cases, what makes having an abortion emotionally difficult is the guilt-and- shame factor, which has, IMHO, *no* rational basis whatsoever. It's something that's been imposed and encouraged by the antichoice folks. To counter the "wanton disregard for the fetus" canard by invoking the emotional distress caused by abortion, as Barry did, is to cite *one* spurious reason for opposing abortion against the *other* spurious reason for opposing abortion, putting the woman right between a rock and a hard place and handing the argument to the antichoicers. The reason abortion is a difficult decision is not because it's *inherently* difficult, it's because the antichoicers have *made* it difficult. Barry tacitly acknowledges this in the case of the women he consoled by claiming that one of the ways he could be helpful was not to "judge" the women. What is there to judge other than "wanton disregard for the fetus," on the one hand, or guilt on the other? Barry insists it wasn't the first, so it could only have been the second.
