On Oct 7, 2007, at 1:05 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:
--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There was some discussion a while back about Joni Mitchell & lyrics
> to "Refuge of the Road." She captures very nicely the description
of
> the state called in Tibetan, rigpa tsel wang, the transmission of
the
> state of enlightenment, where the state of enlightenment is
directly
> passed on to the student. In Joni's case, it lasted several days
the
> first time, which is quite good--although not surprising coming
from
> a Mahasiddha like Trungpa.
Wow! a whole *72 hours* of enlightenment!!! yippee!...about as long as
it used to last for me on any run-of-the-mill residence course...yeah
that Trungpa is some kind of great teacher all right..."mahasiddha"
you say? wow! 72 whole hours...mmmmm...a day more than a weekend pass
to Disneyland. Yep, that's some special teacher all right. And a rare
event you say?...depends on your expectations I guess.
Seriously, I read that, with the article written, and you acting, Vaj,
like this is some kind of rare, fragile, wonderfully special spiritual
event to gush over. It is nothing in today's terms. Just about zip,
nada, nothing.
Maybe when enlightenment was just being introduced to the West this 3
days of feeling without an "I" was a big deal, but now in my opinion
it is time to grow up, and move on. If you are still starry-eyed over
a continuous 3 days of enlightenment, please try a different
technique, or dare to dream a little more, please.:-)
Hi Jim:
An important part of not being fooled by our own obscurations and
projections is to have direct transmission from a realizer, and then
to check that realization with an authentic master. Once one has
correct view (of the state of total enlightenment), then one no
longer remains in doubt. As far I am aware this has never occurred in
the TMO, nor is it likely to occur in the future from what I can
tell. But for those for whom it has occurred, it an invaluable
touchstone for their everpresent enlightened condition and it's
complete integration.
I'd tend to agree with people like Dana Sawyer in that we'll never
see anyone in the TM "line" achieve CC. Certainly, as New Morn has
done a nice of of delineating in older posts, no one has met the
criteria (clear siddhis, etc.) of even CC. While I do feel it might
be safe to say some people have had some awakening or some
realization, it's very likely these are huge exaggerations on the
part of a few people. This is not unusual, so there's no need to be
surprised. This is a further advantage of having a good teacher, they
don't let egos hyperinflate and conflate meditational experiences for
some imagined enlightenment.
As I've said before (and for the above reasons) maybe Kapleau Roshi
had a good point when he said "Masters of old lashed out at those who
claimed enlightenment yet refused to be tested, calling them
earthworms living in the slime of self-validated satori".
There are a lot slimey earthworms out there so watch out! :-)
V.
