--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2007, at 1:05 PM, jim_flanegin wrote:
>
> > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There was some discussion a while back about Joni Mitchell &
lyrics
> > > to "Refuge of the Road." She captures very nicely the
description
> > of
> > > the state called in Tibetan, rigpa tsel wang, the transmission
of
> > the
> > > state of enlightenment, where the state of enlightenment is
> > directly
> > > passed on to the student. In Joni's case, it lasted several
days
> > the
> > > first time, which is quite good--although not surprising coming
> > from
> > > a Mahasiddha like Trungpa.
> >
> > Wow! a whole *72 hours* of enlightenment!!! yippee!...about as
long as
> > it used to last for me on any run-of-the-mill residence
course...yeah
> > that Trungpa is some kind of great teacher all
right..."mahasiddha"
> > you say? wow! 72 whole hours...mmmmm...a day more than a weekend
pass
> > to Disneyland. Yep, that's some special teacher all right. And a
rare
> > event you say?...depends on your expectations I guess.
> >
> > Seriously, I read that, with the article written, and you
acting, Vaj,
> > like this is some kind of rare, fragile, wonderfully special
spiritual
> > event to gush over. It is nothing in today's terms. Just about
zip,
> > nada, nothing.
> >
> > Maybe when enlightenment was just being introduced to the West
this 3
> > days of feeling without an "I" was a big deal, but now in my
opinion
> > it is time to grow up, and move on. If you are still starry-eyed
over
> > a continuous 3 days of enlightenment, please try a different
> > technique, or dare to dream a little more, please.:-)
>
>
> Hi Jim:
>
> An important part of not being fooled by our own obscurations and
> projections is to have direct transmission from a realizer, and
then
> to check that realization with an authentic master. Once one has
> correct view (of the state of total enlightenment), then one no
> longer remains in doubt. As far I am aware this has never occurred
in
> the TMO, nor is it likely to occur in the future from what I can
> tell. But for those for whom it has occurred, it an invaluable
> touchstone for their everpresent enlightened condition and it's
> complete integration.
>
> I'd tend to agree with people like Dana Sawyer in that we'll
never
> see anyone in the TM "line" achieve CC. Certainly, as New Morn
has
> done a nice of of delineating in older posts, no one has met the
> criteria (clear siddhis, etc.) of even CC. While I do feel it
might
> be safe to say some people have had some awakening or some
> realization, it's very likely these are huge exaggerations on the
> part of a few people. This is not unusual, so there's no need to
be
> surprised. This is a further advantage of having a good teacher,
they
> don't let egos hyperinflate and conflate meditational experiences
for
> some imagined enlightenment.
>
> As I've said before (and for the above reasons) maybe Kapleau
Roshi
> had a good point when he said "Masters of old lashed out at those
who
> claimed enlightenment yet refused to be tested, calling them
> earthworms living in the slime of self-validated satori".
>
> There are a lot slimey earthworms out there so watch out! :-)
>
> V.
>
sounds like a huge justification to become dependent on someone else
or the system they are selling in order to validate the Self
evident, and that you have bought into the entire
dependent/codependent story. No thanks.:-)
