--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jun 18, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > >> In many traditions one checks ones View, their inner > >> experience and POV > >> with a teacher who's 'been there, done that'. I > >> can't tell you how many > >> people I've met who thought they were enlightened > >> after a certain > >> experience or shift in awareness. In every case the > >> experience was a > >> symptom of some part of awakening or some aspect of > >> the Path. In the > >> first part of my training a portion was on people > >> who will report > >> instances of enlightenment after practicing certain > >> practices, so there > >> is a practical literature out there on this very > >> topic, it's just not > >> generally discussed outside the tradition (let alone > >> on email lists). > >> > >> -V. > > > > Yes, what is usually discussed on an e-mail list are > > peoples' mental models of enlightenment and how wrong > > you are if you don't express your experience of > > enlightenment within the confines of my mental model. > > Yeah, but that should not be used as an excuse to not debate or engage > in rigorous intellectual learning. It turns out, these are an essential > part of creating a framework where true enlightenment can manifest. > Consider some sects of Tibetan Buddhist monks--they will spend half > their lives in meditation, but the other half in rigorous debate. The > reason is it is important to have that debate in order to create a > fertile ground for the non-conceptual to take lasting root. This is > especialy true in the era we live in today. In fact, it is these > accumulations of good karma that allow that to happen. In New Age forms > of eastern spirituality this is often discouraged. Depending on the > path, this might be a warning sign that either the teacher does not > know the path as he claims or there simply isn't a path to > enlightenment being taught--that is, it's a false path and/or false > View. > > As an example, before one learns the YS, one is taught what > intellectual knowledge one must gain for the system to work and what > virtues one must accumulate. As a further example, there are certain > experiences one needs to accumulate *before* some siddhis can manifest > (in this case accomplishment siddhis, not "yogic" siddhis).
I agree about the part about rigorous intellectual learning, only because I tend to live my experiences for awhile without questioning very much, so that I can just watch and see if I am headed in a direction that feels right- sort of an antidote to over- intellectualizing my evolution, and just living it. Periodically though, there comes a time where perhaps experience has become too contradictory or self referential to be able to make sense of it either just by myself or through the reference texts I have. At that point some rigorous intellectual accretion of knowledge coupled with discrimination seems to move me along quite handily; dispelling wrong concepts and reinforcing directions that are helpful. I find it wise in this alternation of experience and intellectual verification to easily move from one to another and not engage in trying to learn on the one hand or do on the other, when the very reverse may be needed instead. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
