-imperfect world, true: On December 2, 1974 as he went to take his bath at 4:00 a.m., Sri Tat Wale Baba was murdered by a crazy gunman. I soon had learned of the incident from a friend. I wondered about the facts surrounding this crime, and why somebody would want to kill Tat Wale Baba. I had heard various accounts, but none had satisfied me. My visit with Swami Shankardasji afforded me the opportunity for an accurate account.
"What happened to Tat Wale Baba?" I probed a bit apprehensively as I felt I might be approaching a sensitive subject. But, Swami Shankardasji was open to my questioning. "He was killed by a man living there in the mountains," Swami related as he gestured gently with his finger to give me an indication of the direction. Then, Swami shocked me when he said, "He still lives here, near by." My mouth dropped open in shocked disbelief. I wondered if I had heard correctly. "How's that possible? Don't the police know he did it?" "Oh yes! The police got him to confess. The man spent one year in prison, then paid bail (my emphasis) and now is out." I still had difficulty believing that a convicted murderer of a great yogi, in a spiritual country which cherishes its beacons of wisdom, could wiggle his way into freedom and be permitted to live on the same mountain where he executed his maleficent deed. "What a mockery!" I thought. Swami continued, "This man had another run in with the police. But, after a few months in prison, he again got out on parole." Swami Shankardasji brought out newspaper clippings he had saved which reported the killing of Tat Wale Baba, and the subsequent crimes of this murderous renegade. "This last December 14, he again just got out of prison," Swami said. "It was his third time. And he is still causing problems for people here." I now could understand why Swami Shankardasji made it a practice to bolt the ashram door shut. It was hard to imagine that one needed to protect oneself against the harm from others while on a spiritual retreat in a cave hidden in the Himalayan jungles overlooking a holy city. The cobras, however, are friendly! Be that as it may. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > Sometime it takes an online conversation some time to find its > way. > > Thanks for hanging in there. > > and thank you as well. > > Your post has some very thoughtful ideas > > I would like to consider. In particular I appreciate your open > minded > > tone. That encourages conversation. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 > > <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > "I am just as sincere in my belief that ancient spiritual > beliefs > > > keep mankind in ignorant bondage..."-- taking what Tat Wale Baba > > > said about world peace being essentially a state created inside > > > first and then reflected outside, i am curious about this > expression > > > of yours. > > > > You know I really view Tat's POV as very limited. What he said > was a > > nice platitude from his religious upbringing, but I don't share his > > belief that peace inside means peace outside. At least I have > seen no > > evidence for this. > > what i meant here was not some reiteration of the Maharishi Effect, > for example -- just that when i am at peace with myself, it is > easier to see the world fit together in a way that makes sense. > > I see no reason for taking him seriously. He > > lacked exposure to the complexity of the world you and I live in > and > > that limited his POV to a very provincial one. > > really hard to say on that one. reminds me of an archeologist i met > years ago who lived among what i thought were 'primitive' people-- > desert nomads and others, and through talking with him learned that > their lives, thinking, concerns, values and aspirations were as > complex as anything we experience in our faster paced world. > > > > > i am not picking on you, though i am wondering why this is > > > particularly important to you. > > > > Far from picking on my. You are honoring me with a question about > my POV. > > great. > > > > after all, i could say that those in > > > ignorant bondage to ancient spiritual beliefs have only > themselves > > > to blame- problem solved > > > > I don't see where assigning blame helps. The problem isn't solved > if > > our policy makers are too influenced by religious beliefs. For > > example the people who believe that because the rapture is coming > we > > don't have to worry about saving the earth ecologically cause a big > > problem. > > > > , or at least the responsibility shifts from > > > those propagating the harmful ancient spiritual beliefs to those > > > being taken in by them. no audience, no more harmful ancient > > > spiritual practices. chicken vs egg. > > > > I'm not sure that a view of the problems with spirituality has been > > given enough exposure. We are living in a pretty religious country > > and it still support religiously sanctioned oppression. The > religious > > nature of our country matters a lot if you are gay or care about > gay > > friends as one example. I am pro rationality. That is the > positive > > way to express my interest. I believe that glorifying faith without > > good reasons bypasses our most important human assets. I would > like > > to see all religions admit that men wrote all the world's > scriptures > > and their claims can be evaluated like all other human beliefs, by > > examining the evidence. But I am not a reductionist. I know that > we > > live in a world of mystery. I just don't believe that anyone has > it > > all figured out. Life and death are full of mystery and many > people > > are giving that beauty up for a plastic Virgin Mary (or Dhurga) on > > their taxi dashboard. > > I completely agree-- just because we have advanced technologically, > and lead more powerful lives as a result or have these grand stories > we can believe to explain the Big Questions does not equate to > having it all figured out. i think the best we can do is experience > life as completely as possible, and draw from the wisdom of those > who are smarter than we are to continue to enjoy living. > > > > > > > > i have always pursued spiritual enquiry as a deeply personal and > > > ultimately personally responsible endeavor. in plain english, if > i > > > fuck up, the finger points right back at me and no one else. in > > > other words, there probably aren't any perfect paths to > > > enlightenment or greater happiness, save those we craft for > > > ourselves. to look at the spiritual landscape out there and > declare > > > every teacher, tradityion and religion flawed in some respect is > a > > > good thing, > > > > There is a lot of wisdom in what you wrote. Although I might > choose > > different vocabulary, I agree with you. It was a nice surprise > for me > > to find out how much I still have in common with people with a > > spiritual path here. Discovering this is probably the most > important > > thing I have learned on FFL. You remind me that I have to give > each > > person the respect for having their own personal set of beliefs > from > > those traditions, and that I may agree with many of them. > > > > however i think we also have to watch out for the baby > > > getting tossed out with the bathwater. > > > > Here we may differ. I think babies are waaaay overrated! We might > > not agree with which is which. I believe that most the elements in > > spiritual traditions are even better handled in more secular > contexts > > where their assumptions can be questioned without having someone > claim > > "But God said it!" But the ideals expressed in some spiritual > > traditions about being kind to people are laudable. Unfortunately > > they are usually paired with heavy judgments about certain groups. > > > > As far as why this would be an important issue for me, that is > because > > of my own personal history with spiritual traditions. I am still > > fascinated by them as an outsider. I am sympathetic to people's > > spiritual experiences and altered (or as they would say higher) > states > > of mind. It is how we interpret what they mean where I may differ > > with most spiritual traditions. I think they have been waaaay > > oversold in their value for a person. > > > > So what are your favorite issues? > > > issues-- hmmm, i would think of an issue as something in my world > that i would like to change in order to make my world a better > place. can't say that i have any of those (!). i of course have > individual preferences at different times, but no real issues. > > someone said that duality is its own guru, its own teacher, and i > dig that- it may sound perverse, but i like living in an imperfect > world, full of challenges and stuff that doesn't work out as > expected, never ending problems and solutions, and surprises around > every turn, and feeling exhausted and then relieved, or in love and > out of love, and confused momentarily and clear, all of that. what > could i possibly want to change? what could i possibly want to stay > the same? i just try to roll with all of it, seeing myself as > writer, actor, producer, director and audience. >
