--- In [email protected], "emptybill" <emptyb...@...> wrote: >Hey empty bill
Thanks for your words of encouragement. I have already had a previous run in with Mr. Vaj. When I said in a previous post that as far as I am concerned, I have experienced pretty much everything Maharishi promised that I would, Mr. Vaj could not accept that and said that I only think I have experienced something, but in fact he was arguing that in his mind I really have not. The arrogance was sickening. How can Vaj know what you or I or anyone for that matter have experienced. I don't have a problem with him or anyone else being anti TM or antiMaharishi. To each his own. But I do have problem when someone invalidates me with no basis of anything to invalidate on. Any comments Vaj? > Randy > > Good to have someone else questioning Vaj's BS. > > This guy postures himself here as an american natha-guru and buddhist > dzogchenpa. However, his simplistic identification of Narayana (as the source > of the tm puja) with the vaishnava sampradaya shows an amazing ignorance. > > In reality this guy is just another american spiritual hack who makes error > after error in his claims. He has been on this forum for four or five years. > He is here because he wants to "critique" (read denigrate) maharishi's > accomplishments and maharishi's personality. > > What he brings to the forum is a quite partial intellectual knowledge of > Buddhism, some nomenclature from Swami Rama's lineage, claims of initiation > into the Nath sampradaya and many other speculations he has generated from > his reading. > > As you probably know Shankara instituted five form of deity worship, later > amplified into six: Surya, Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti, Ganapati and Skanda. He > viewed and taught all as faces (identities) of Parameshvara Saguna Brahman. > > What Vaj is saying is that sectarian Shaiva-s trace their lineage from Shiva > and sectarian Vaishnava trace their lineage from a form of Vishnu-Krishna. > Vaj is therefore claiming that those Dashanami lineages of Adi-Shankara who > view Narayana as the source-origin of their sampradaya must be Vaishnava by > definition. > This is a gross blunder confirming him to be just another cheap hack. > > So if you are wondering - "why he is here? > He is here because: > > 1. FFL provides him with a large forum to display his ponderous claims to > esoterica. > > 2. Most people here are not deeply conversant with other Asian meditative > traditions much less Western spiritual traditions. Thus he can present > himself as a pontiff. > > His main problem is that there are a few people here on the forum having both > knowledge and experience in other meditative traditions. However, the > unfortunate reality is that they don't always have time to follow his many > threads and negative comments. If his employer only knew how much time he > spends on ffl each day they would probably fire him on the spot. > > So, as a consequence, our good buddy Vajra-duta gets a free pass most of the > time. > > Please join us if you can and keep this rabid skunk under some kind of > control by questioning and examining his every claim and assertion. > Odious-vajra-duta had proved to not only to be rabid but also dishonest. We > need help maintaining some type of vigilance here. > > PS: By the way, as far as Bhaja Govindam is concerned, Govinda was the name > of Shankara's guru, who was also a direct disciple of the famous advaita > teacher Gaudapada. > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > On May 31, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Randy Meltzer wrote: > > > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > >> Yes I have read Bhaja Govindam. Shankara is famous for being an > > >> advaita teacher but also having the ability to have the devotional > > >> aspect of bhakti. Just because he refers to Govinda in that > > >> treatise does not make him a vaishnavite. And just because > > >> Narayana is mentioned in the tradition does not make him one either > > > Have you been to Guru Dev's ashram in Allahabad? There are no > > > Krishna/Vishnu images there. There is however a huge shiva lingam > > > in the middle of the ashram. No self respecting Vaishnavite would a > > > shiva lingam without a vishnu or krishna statue. > > > And have you been to Jyotir math? No Vishnu images there either. > > > > > > The point is you know nothing of the tradition of which you claim to > > > speak. Everything about the shankaracharya tradition is shaivite. > > > > > > Anyone else what to chime on this other than Vaj. I am open to > > > someone else who is knowledgable to comment on this. Vaj thinks he > > > knows something about this, but I don't believe he does. > > > > > > You are correct, all the Maths do perform Shiva-lingam worship. It is > > common to see the admixture of Vedic ritual and tantric and it is > > common to see Shiva-lingams in the Maths. It sounds to me like you're > > confusing the fact that Shiva lingam worship is ubiquitous within > > Vedic ritual with the line being a Shaivite one. > > > > When I was initiated into a Shaivite sampradaya the origin of the line > > was Adi-shiva, not Narayana. > > >
