--- In [email protected], t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > <snip> > > > Lots of conditioning in the 2nd lecture (Bubble diagram) 2nd > > > day-checking (Theory of Stress-release), group-effect. > > > enlightenment, 'scientific validation', everything, every little > > > thing is conditioning. You will realize this only when you leave TM > > > or join a different group with different spiritual ideas. > > > Conditioning is not always bad, one kind of conditioning can undo > > > another kind (thorn removes thorn) > > > > Depending on exactly how you're defining > > "conditioning," I would question whether > > you can't become aware of conditioning > > unless you leave the source. > > You could, but generally you aren't. This is just my experience. This > has to do with being in a group, or even if it isn't physical, of > conforming to a group idea. > > > > I would also question whether coming to > > believe that something one has been taught > > is true is always a function of conditioning. > > Again, maybe it depends on how you're defining > > the term, but you seem to be ruling out the > > possibility that one can be taught something, > > accept it provisionally (or even remain > > skeptical) for a time, and only become > > convinced of it on the basis of one's own > > experience and observation. > > See, we maybe conditioned to stop the car when the traffic lights turn > red. You can provisionally accept it, validate it as true, based on > observation etc. The conditioning is that you connect two facts, the > red traffic lights, and the need to stop the car. There is nothing > wrong with it, and still it is a conditioning. It is so on the basis > of a fact being connected to a signal. This deep identification of the > fact with the signal is a conditioning, so that when we see a red > light, we become attentive etc. You see that the correlation does not > have to be wrong, it can have its meaning, but as soon as it creates a > reaction in our brain, you can call it conditioning. > > > If one arrives at a conclusion by such a > > process, I wouldn't call it conditioning. > > I would. You can only know how opinions direct and limit your mind, > when you are free of those very opinions. I am not saying that this > conditioning cannot have a valueable function, but on top of that it > also has a limiting function. IMHO there is a point in time, where you > have to free yourself from them and see there limiting value. Thats my > experience upon leaving the Movement. I realized, that I wasn't just > meditating (and switched to a different form of it) but I realized > that there was still the old TM conditioning, and in order to be happy > with a different spiritual process and functioning, I had to free > myself of it. I don't blame TM. We all build our prisons ourselves, we > are looking for them, we demand them, as they give us security. I > think its unrealistic to be aware, fully aware of a certain > conditioning, and still live according to it. Its unnatural. It can't > work. Its like you do something against your beliefs.
It's interesting. I have never viewed TM as "conditioning," but rather as counter-conditioning. In fact, and yes, this could be my own blindness to conditioning coming through, but my "experience" with TM is such that I can't even conceive (or even admit to save in words strung together in a script that I'm reading, rather than feeling/meaining) that there is an "easier" "technique" than TM. My own limitation? Or perhaps the limitation of everyone else who never "got" TM the way I have? It's a hard thing to discuss, either way, because, there's so little (if any) there to discuss in the first place. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
