--- In [email protected], "Buck" <dhamiltony...@...> wrote:
>
> Yep this all reads well like some lot of FFL pharisaical sophistry. A lot of
> mental gymnastic about other people's experience. Should have been there but
> you weren't. You missed it, again.
>
> And also who is saying there is no science? This Trivedi bursting on the
> scene is about that. Science. He's come like Christ and is saying hook me up
> and don't hide the results. 'Show everyone the science'. He's been trying
> for that and That is what they did up on campus here last week. That science
> of spiritual phenomena is what Trivedi is about doing. John Douglas too is
> getting looked at. Enjoy the show, it's the real deal by experience and
> science.
>
> JGD,
> -Buck
>
> --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > I think you deepened the discussion with the consideration of how people's
> > beliefs can have an effect on their health. And if the cost of belief is a
> > lump of cash in this society rather than some deferential relationship with
> > a village elder shaman priest then so be it. I was responding more to
> > Douglas's site where he misuses terms like "quantum level" to make it sound
> > sciencey like Chopra. And perhaps he believes his own rap so it is
> > innocent on both sides. I believe there is a lack of ethics in giving
> > false hopes on health matters despite the placebo effect. Because we also
> > know that it is not permanent, it fades. Whatever we have to learn about
> > our amazing mind body relationship is not aided by people claiming surety
> > without good evidence.
> >
> > I'm not sure how anyone could distinguish the cause and effect of an energy
> > like "shakti." How anyone could say that the source outside yourself was
> > known. I am more inclined to believe that it is self generated. My own
> > "experience" of what I thought at the time was Maharishi's "darshon" is
> > probably my best reference. After a while it kind of went away in India
> > after seeing him day after day. But with suggestibility heightened by long
> > meditations we were all ripe for generating all sorts of experiences.
> >
> > When I was dropping out of TM I had a brief phase of trying stuff like
> > Reiki healing. I had all sorts of experiences with it being a good little
> > suggestible meditator. Everything I tried "worked" in the sense that I
> > felt all sorts of stuff much to the delight of any teacher of whatever I
> > came across. But is was all subjective, I never healed any conditions with
> > it, not even heartburn! Like Maharishi said, once the field is prepared any
> > seed will grow.
> >
> > What I see lacking in personal healer's presentations is a genuinely honest
> > attempt to test their claims. Their utter contempt for skepticism and the
> > right for customers to see something that would reasonable support their
> > claims makes them seem dishonest to me. We all know how to test such
> > specific claims about the physical world. But somehow they have convinced
> > people that those rules of evidence do not apply to them. Instead we get
> > anecdotes from people who had spaces filled inside their own imagination.
> >
> > Perhaps it is an entertainment expense for people. They get their ticket
> > and they get their ride. And everybody is happy till the next MRI.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues"
> > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Seems both Trivedi and John Douglas are approved as healer
> > > > > teachers to go to. Which one is more cost effective?
> > > >
> > > > I would go with the equally reliable process of flushing single
> > > > dollar bills down the toilet whispering the phrase "heal me oh
> > > > great pooba" with each flush. You should feel the same relief
> > > > you would get from a magical healing session plus it will help
> > > > make sure your septic system is flowing properly. Since you are
> > > > just flushing single dollars you will come out ahead of any lump
> > > > sum process of being played as a mark by a "healer."
> > >
> > > I am glad you weighed in on this, Curtis. I was tempted
> > > to write a similar reply to Buck yesterday but didn't
> > > have time.
> > >
> > > I see two factors at play here. The first is *hope*,
> > > the value of which can never be discounted. Call it a
> > > "miracle," call it the placebo effect, having a strong
> > > belief in a "cure" can often affect one. Look into the
> > > recent studies that have shown that the placebo effect
> > > seems to be growing *stronger*, to the point that it
> > > is now difficult to perform accurate medical studies
> > > because the percentage of people gaining relief in the
> > > control group -- taking only placebos -- is often as
> > > high as the percentage of people gaining relief from
> > > the actual medicine. It appears that the main factor
> > > is the fact that they are taking a pill, period. This
> > > seems sufficient to trigger whatever mechanism that
> > > provides relief. The researchers have even found that
> > > the *color* of the placebo or real pill can affect
> > > results.
> > >
> > > Given this, I see no reason to disbelieve those who
> > > claim that they have experienced "relief" from what
> > > ails them as a result of a "blessing" from Trivedi
> > > or other "healers." If a placebo can trigger "relief,"
> > > then so can belief in a "healer." Thus I would never
> > > deny their *right* to either pay Trivedi his "fees"
> > > or flush dollar bills down the toilet.
> > >
> > > That said, the other factor I see at play here is the
> > > shakti/flash component. From what has been said here,
> > > it appears that this Trivedi fellow can generate
> > > enough of it so that people in the audience (admit-
> > > tedly already pre-programmed to expect something)
> > > *feel* something as the result of sitting with him.
> > >
> > > I have no problem with this. Been there, done that.
> > > Shakti -- whatever it is -- can be a palpable
> > > experience. The problem, as I see it, is *associating*
> > > that palpable experience of shakti with anything.
> > >
> > > *Anything*. IMO, having experienced powerful shakti
> > > from a number of people, shakti is associated with
> > > only one thing -- shakti. The ability to generate it
> > > has *nothing* to do with the person's state of
> > > consciousness, or with his/her ability to "heal."
> > > That is an association that the perceiver makes in
> > > his or her own mind, or that is claimed by the person
> > > generating the shakti.
> > >
> > > You sit in a room with someone who can generate some
> > > shakti and you feel something. Big whoop. I have done
> > > this hundreds of times and personally I don't see it
> > > as *ever* having had a lasting effect. It's like a
> > > temporary drug rush, a hit on the crack pipe of shakti.
> > > It's fun at the time, but if the perception is gone
> > > the next day or within a week, *what effect did it
> > > really have on you*?
> > >
> > > IMO, a *LOT* of people in the New Age community are
> > > suckers for a cheap hit of shakti. They feel something
> > > and *project stuff onto it*. IMO, all that happened
> > > was the subjective experience of some very common
> > > energy we have labeled "shakti."
> > >
> > > My suspicion is that the things these seekers project
> > > onto a cheap experience of shakti is pure projection.
> > > Just because you feel a rush does not mean that the
> > > rush is either beneficial or is "healing" you. It is
> > > *just* as logical to assume that any "healing" you
> > > experience after a cheap hit of shakti is due to the
> > > placebo effect as it is to consider it the "result"
> > > of a toke on the shakti crack pipe.
> > >
> > > Just my opinion...
> > >
> >
>
