--- akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > --- In [email protected], Peter > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > MMY has gone mental! Love that ol' cosmic > coot, > > > but > > > > he's gone off his cosmic rocker! > > > > > > Is that based on your expectation of how the > > > realized should act > > > and/or how gurus should interact with their > > > students? > > snip > I am jut a bit intrigued by the "expectations" > theme. See other posts > on this. (this one summarizes some of the issues.) > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/64595 > snip > snip > snip > > You appear, in my view, to be smearing judgemental > critics and > expectations with personal preferences. To say, > "that decor is not for > me" -- and then dropping it, is a statment of > personal taste. To go > further and say "thats tacky" is judgemental. > > And there is a semantical razor's edge here. By > "judgemental views" I > mean making assessemnt of others or things that are > not required for > ones own decisions and actions. Its not decrying > using "judgement" aka > IMO intellectual discrimination, which when applied > to things one must > make a decision about, and actions one is > considering, is a good thing. > > A theme I am exploring is "are judgemental views > rooted in > expectations"? It seem to be a correct, and useful, > hypothesis, but I > am still looking for exceptions to disprove the it. I don't think that all judgements are rooted in expectations. Some obviously are, but many are not. For instance I eat something that doesn't taste good and I say, "Yuk, that tastes awful" and I spit it out. Expectation? I suppose yes, because why would I eat something awful..... So maybe it's the "level" of the expectations. Based on previous experience we expect something to be a certain way; to have the same experience again. You seem to be saying that expectations are bad or wrong. If expectations prevent one from simple experiencing or lead to obsessing I can see the problem. I really don't see a problem with saying it was tacky. I just didn't like it. If someone else liked it I certainly wasn't going to argue with them! I'd say, "Oh" and leave it at that. Two different preferences. > > So back to the examples, to say "that decor is not > for me" is an > expression of personal taste, and may be quite > relevant if one is > considering buying or renting the property. To make > a value judgement, > that is to be judgemental about it, particularly if > its a disparaging > one, particularly if it makes disparaging > implications about others, No disparging implication of others intended. I'd never say such a thing directly to the Dilbecks. Why would I? > then its unecessary, it serves no decision-based or > action-based > service. It only serves to distinguish oneself from > others, to subtly > disparage others, a habit of the ego to pump up its > own superiority. Way, way off base here. Your logic is leading in directions that are false. To say that something is tacky is not then saying by implication that I am superior in my taste. I really don't have a lot invested in the decor of the Dilbecks house! I find many "TMO" houses to be of this odd decor. It's movement decor which is way to prissy for me. That's all. > And I know Unc was making a joke. So we could just > laugh it off as not > relevant. But I find "jokes" can often have embedded > judgements at > thier core. Its what makes it "funny". It might be > termed disparaging > humor or one-upmanship humor. And such humor can be > self-mocking, that > is one uses such humor to point out the foibles of > us all, incuding > the joke teller. But on the other hand, I have > several friends, quite > smart, upbeat, spiritually inclined people, who at > times can make > quite disparaging remarks about others -- in the > context of humor. Its > can be quite shocking, the "meaness" of it all. But > its a "joke", > right? That excuses everthing. :) Sure, that's that passive agressive crap. It's better to be just direct. > > But where is the line between personal tastes (a > fine thing) and > judgemental views (an unecessary and harmful thing)? > As touched on > above, I think it is where the judgement is relavant > to, necessary > for, a personal decisions about an action. If its > not, its a > superfilous and extranious judgement -- and its this > type of constant > internally (and sometimes externally) "commenting > on" judging people > and things, that cloud the mind. Not neccessarily. > > A parting example. You might comment internally (why > the need to > express this externally is another issue): "MMY's > behavior as a guru > is not useful to me. I won't follow what he says > (anymore)." Thats all > good and fine, it relates to a personal decision and > action. > > To go further, even as a joke, and say "he is off > his rocker etc", is > judgemental, and serves no purpose in terms of > personal decisions and > actions. Its could be a venting or coping sort of > mechanism, and a > means to dissassociate yourself from the craziness, > in a smug sort of > way. Smug? I don't think so. I see MMY as having lost his marbles. I'm making a joke out a very serious issue. MMY has gone nuts. I find it quite incredible and interesting. When ever I say this I usually get about 3 to 5 hate mails on the side insulting me and telling me I've lost my marbles for saying such a thing. Me and MMY are cool. He'd just laugh if I called him nuts to his face. Actually, I wouldn't say that, I'd say "Maharishi, so much of what you're doing is so crazy, isn't it?" I'd hang tight as he blew me off until we'd get to the good stuff. So maybe he's not so crazy after all. > > And it may indeed have to do with your expectations > of what a realized > person should do and how guru should act when > interacting with his > students. For you, perhaps, its inappropriate. > Perhaps you bring up > counter arguments "well, not all gurus need to act > in this way, e.g., > SSRS, Amma, etc." -- which might imply an > expectation of how gurus > should act. Perhaps the purpose of MMY's actions is > to break apart > such expectations. And thus he is helping you and > many others to break > boundaries. Exactly. Even SSRS surprises me with his very casual, open behavior at times. Definately rooting out and expectation there. > > Or perhaps he is clinically "ill". But then jokes > are not in order. > Thats a serious clinical diagnosis, a "valid" > judgement that could be > the basis of personal decisions and actions -- that > is, taking actions > to have him formally diagnosed and perhaps > "committed" if he presents > a danger too society. Thats not a joking matter. Maybe he is. Who knows? Certainly not me. > But hey, I know both Uncs and your comments were > jokes. I can just > laugh. But they are helpful to me in tracing > throught this odd little > thread in all of our lives called "expectations". Yes, just jokes that make the truth go down easier. > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! 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