Well put as always Curtis. I would say the same about the term "MMY Bashers". Anything less than abject fawning over M becomes "bashing". Lazy terms used by lazy minds.
Hey, speaking of Glenn Beck, Jon Stewart was at his best last night with his dead on version of Beck: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/08/jon-stewart-glenn-beck_n_846540.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > The TM tru-believers on one end, some practitioners in the middle, and the > > TM-haters on the other end.> > > > > I would like to challenge the Glenn Beckiness of this idea of TM haters. Who > are you talking about? Let's go down the list on this board. > > Vaj seems to believe that TM is for dilettantes, spiritual babies who are not > ready for the real deal. He does however seem to believe in the basic > structure of humans gaining higher states through spiritual practices. He > doesn't seem to think TM can get you there. > > So does he hate TM? I think he has shown contempt for it as a spiritual > practice and doesn't seem to give Maharishi credit for being the most > important man in human history as he presents himself. But all of this is > motivated by a certain earnestness in the ideal of the whole project of > spiritual practice. He has contempt for TM because he doesn't believe it is > true to its advertising. Can you really fault the guy for that since it is > what he truly believes and it is important to him? His goals seem so similar > to your own. > > Barry also seems to see TM as a starter practice and prefers other versions, > but values meditation itself. He has even given TM some credit for > beginners. He has shown some contempt for the pompous posturings of > Maharishi about his status and seems to hate all the things in the current > movement that you do. > > Me. Well for all my Maharishi goofing I am quite nostalgic about my time > with the old guy. I do think he was mostly full of shit but...drum roll...I > dig his TM. Not having any lofty spiritual aspirations, I don't care if it > has training wheels or not. And all the puja/bija mantra namahs add to the > cultural charm. I couldn't care less if my practice is giving some Hindu god > the prison courtesy of reach-around, I enjoy TM and have become quite > addicted to practicing it before shows. And when I sit there in the 5 > minutes of silence after I stop sticking my tongue in the ear of my favorite > multi-armed Hindu goddess, I feel positively beatific. It is one of the peak > experiences that I look forward to in my day. > > Soooo I guess you must mean the camp that believes that TM has hurt them or > people they treat like John Knapp. Perhaps he is an actual TM hater. > > I guess what I am saying is that TM-haters as a term is unnecessary drama as > a term for people who don't think about TM exactly as you do. Most people > are TM-don't-give-a-shits. You should feel lucky if any of us think about it > at all to even write. It may prolong the inevitable death of this > fascinating micro-cultural movement for a minute or two longer. > > (Sorry for any misrepresentations of Barry and Vaj's position but I missed > the last TM-haters meeting and don't have the latest talking points.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea, I like the analysis but I'll stick with hope. 'Faith' is too > > > > > > loaded a word to graph in this. Hope, like hope that Bobby could > > > > > > pull it off vs. hope that he won't pull it off. And at that, what > > > > > > someone is going to do about it in either direction. Buy long, > > > > > > hold, sell, sell short. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a complexion of hope. Throw a shaped curve across > > > > > > long-buyers to holders to short-sellers in spiritual groups. It > > > > > > might be skewed right or left depending on the group. TB's on one > > > > > > side, attenders to the middle, and short-selling on the other. > > > > > > Scale of: hopeful, with hope, with little hope, without hope, > > > > > > hopeless, against all hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > With TM as it is now, you got TM-TB share holders "long" on one > > > > > > extreme and TM-haters on the other end working at "shorting" and > > > > > > some in the middle somewhere along the scale. I would hazard that > > > > > > the nuts are three standard deviations to either extreme. Such is > > > > > > the TM community. > > > > > > > > > > > > The cultists in either extreme are likely not that much different > > > > > > from each other in that the people in the middle between proly > > > > > > don't much trust either end. And shouldn't? > > > > > > > > > > > > Relative hope, faith, and trust. > > > > > > Yep, this works good. This kind of analysis works great at helping > > > people looking in from the outside wanting to understand what is going on > > > here with TM on the inside. It breaks out the nuance between folks in a > > > way that is quite helpful for looking in. I've run it by a couple of > > > different outsiders wanting to know and it works quite quick and well. > > > It gives a good perspective to something that often looks monolithic from > > > the outside to the un-trained eye. > > > > > > -Buck > > > > > > > > > > Relative hope, faith, and trust. > > > > Yup, now then let's layer in 'trust' to this analysis. For instance, > > both of the outsiders recently who were looking in that I spoke with were > > astute and quickly asked the follow-up, ".. what does the future hold for > > TM?" Looking at 'trust' now becomes key to that. > > > > Once people looking in on TM grok the status quo of 'faith' and 'hope' then > > layering how the larger TM community might 'trust' each other helps sort > > out possible futures for TM. > > > > We got TB'ers going 'long' on hope or faith, people in the middle, and > > those 'selling short'. > > The TM tru-believers on one end, some practitioners in the middle, and the > > TM-haters on the other end. > > > > It's like 'a Mexican stand-off' when you take in to account 'trust'. The > > TM-taliban on one end, the haters on the other and some people in between. > > Neither end trust the other. The people in between don't much trust either > > of the ends at this point. > > > > This is the pure Mexican stand-off: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXldafIl5DQ > > > > > > The future? > > Has it come too late a time for a mediator to help the TM stand-off? A > > Desmond Tutu inside TM? Even just someone from outside specializing in > > conflict resolution to come along and broker a peace and reconciliation? > > > > It would seem TM is already hopelessly in crossfire with the extremes dug > > in. In community, TM seems at civil war with the TM-Rajas from last summer > > and fall asserting "Why should we change?", the hopeful TM-progressives > > moving forward, some practitioners are of different shades in the middle, > > the TM-haters lob and snipe from their blogs with some effect. > > > > This is fighting civil war where all trust between folks had broke down: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iioXCs0KWrM > > > > I am always hopeful. "Can't we just get along?" > > > > Journalist embedded on the ground, > > -Buck in FF > > > > > > > > > > & Bobby is trying to appear to move to the middle? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is an interesting way of seeing what's going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Buck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait, I am liking that word "faith" now in this analysis of yours > > > > > about the TM community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's scale 'faith' on an axis from: > > > > > > > > > > "Long" on faith, holding with faith, 'holding', holding with lesser > > > > > faith, leaving faithless, selling "short" on Faith, against all faith. > > > > > > > > > > Throw a bell-shaped curve across that. TB's "long" on faith, > > > > > meditators or simple practitioners in the middle, and the haters > > > > > working on the other extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That " 'Faith and Belief' in Maharishi" is a strong root in the > > > > > current TM-movement's fealty testing. It's very hard to have a > > > > > conversation with a real TM-TB'er about that. They can't really see > > > > > it. However, that testing has through time propelled the Fairfield > > > > > dome numbers towards insolvency dating back at least to Bevan and > > > > > Maharishi, Gurupurnima 1994. Particularly, " the movement is for > > > > > those who have faith and belief in Maharishi. Everyone else should > > > > > leave ... and leave us alone". -Bevan > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/15 > > > > > > > > > > Other iterations of this they say are that "Fairfield is for those > > > > > who have 'faith and belief' in Maharishi's Knowledge". Even last > > > > > summer when TM-Raja-ism got into reviewing the dome policies and > > > > > guidelines after John Hagelin had started in to them, the undertow > > > > > turned exactly on this kind of "Faith and Belief" test. > > > > > This application of "Faith and Belief in Maharishi" fealty got > > > > > reaffirmed by the TM-Rajas and is still the essential policy of the > > > > > guidelines. This fictional video is not far from the truth of how > > > > > this 'faith and belief' in practice con volutes: > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOPXgBflM8I > > > > > > > > > > It is kind of a 'hopeless' situation for the dome numbers now with > > > > > what they have done. It is really unfortunate. > > > > > > > > > > -Buck in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, this weekend going to Harry's memorial on campus I saw lot of old > > > > TM movement friends up there. His circle was old Purusha and old MIU. > > > > It was great fun seeing people and catching up. I knew Harry back in > > > > 1971 and all along. > > > > > > > > One person I was a little stunned to learn about was a guy who got > > > > kicked out of the domes for using non-TM-movement joytish-i's . This > > > > was a guy I associate with 'long rounds' back before I got kicked out > > > > of the domes. I loved the long meditations. Long meditations and > > > > creating coherence program for years. I had a job and life that > > > > allowed for that and this guy did too. > > > > > > > > Last year in the cross-fire between Bevan-conseervatives tightening the > > > > guidelines and John Hagelin-progressives trying to get the numbers up > > > > this guy got sought out and kicked out. Jeesus, this is the kind of > > > > guy you'd want meditating in a group. Retired, has the time and an old > > > > powerful meditator. Out. I'm really kind of stunned with this guy. > > > > He is a good plain guy really. It is so arbitrary, who they go after. > > > > It's just a bad message. And Bevan is going out around the country > > > > trying to get people of the old TM movement to come to Fairfield? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if I am reading you right here, the market differential > > > > > > > > here would be in "hope". Different people are going "long" > > > > > > > > and "short" in "hope". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been actually thinking about this word "hope" > > > > > > > lately, and so will reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think that you're confusing the word > > > > > > > "hope" with the word "faith." You may, in fact, > > > > > > > equate the two. I don't. The people I know who > > > > > > > have "walked away" from one spiritual trip or > > > > > > > another are on the whole far more hopeful than > > > > > > > the people I know who have picked a spiritual > > > > > > > trip and "stuck with it," no matter what. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think that the distinction you're > > > > > > > wanting to make is between those who choose to > > > > > > > maintain faith in the TMO and those who do not. > > > > > > > "Hope" is not affected by the latter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who are hopeful (buy long to hold), those who don't > > > > > > > > hope one way or the other (hangers-on/hold who don't pay > > > > > > > > much attention), the lost hope who leave the market (sell) > > > > > > > > and those who are actively without hope that act on it > > > > > > > > (sell short). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace the word "hope" with the word "faith" > > > > > > > above, and yes, by Jove I think you've got it. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except for equating "selling" with "leaving the > > > > > > > market," that is. Do you think that those who > > > > > > > "sold their stock in the TMO" and moved on to > > > > > > > other teachers "left the market? Do you think > > > > > > > that those who chose to strike out on their own > > > > > > > and invent their own spiritual path "left the > > > > > > > market?" I think of it more like they just > > > > > > > changed brokers. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those last real hopeless who actively go "short" and work > > > > > > > > at it covertly are different cats. You can see all of that > > > > > > > > with TM and the community. It's an interesting analysis > > > > > > > > that kind of opens it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought so. The "time lag" my friend perceived > > > > > > > and made a fortune from between the time that an > > > > > > > investor first has doubts about the worth of his > > > > > > > investment and the time he does something about it > > > > > > > seems to map well for me to the decision a seeker > > > > > > > makes about going "long haul" with a teacher or > > > > > > > an organization and "selling short" and trying > > > > > > > something else. I've certainly noticed that time > > > > > > > lag in my own life, and have seen it in the lives > > > > > > > of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any conversation around FF at any table, in any room, > > > > > > > > or with any group there is always a calculation of where > > > > > > > > people are on this. It kind of determines what and how > > > > > > > > you can say things to people. People are really pretty > > > > > > > > good with each other here that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can imagine that the politically-correct thing > > > > > > > to do would be to avoid topics that might offend > > > > > > > what you know of your companions' beliefs and > > > > > > > sensibilities, yes. More of an English tea room > > > > > > > than a saloon. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good observation Turqb. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for following up, and with info on short > > > > > > > selling, for those who didn't know what it is. > > > > > > > It's really a curious invention, something I was > > > > > > > completely unaware of until I started doing com- > > > > > > > puter consulting for Wall Street firms. I'm just > > > > > > > not an investment kinda guy, so the notion that > > > > > > > you could make money by predicting a *loss* on > > > > > > > something just blew me away. My intuition has > > > > > > > treated me well in casinos, but there the game > > > > > > > is to predict the winners. With short selling > > > > > > > the game is to predict the losers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it really "fits" with some people's predilec- > > > > > > > tions, like my friend's. He has this kind of > > > > > > > "disasterdar," and can see the bottom dropping > > > > > > > out of certain stocks long before they do. That > > > > > > > enables him to make money *as* they do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's kind of a free-willer in a determinist > > > > > > > market. When he "sees" something, it's for him > > > > > > > a Done Deal. 9 times out of 10, when he "sees" > > > > > > > a stock tanking, it does. So that part is deter- > > > > > > > ministic. But what he *does* with this "seeing" > > > > > > > is free will. He finds a way to turn it into > > > > > > > money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
