What we need here on this forum is a post from someone who has died and not lived to tell about it.
If the drop becomes the ocean, the drop is no more as a drop, it is completely recycled and uniformly distributed in the ocean, if we take the analogy a bit further. The specific individuality of the drop is gone. Try and reassemble it again. If you want to be immortal and retain individuality as a function of time and space, I suggest endless life as a cockroach. Fear of death leads to endless speculation. Life and death are pairs of opposites, one cannot exist without the other, one is the negation of the other; they do not exist simultaneously in the same place. The desire to have death be life is misplaced. Leave them behind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu" <yifuxero@...> wrote: > > let's go back to square one. > > MMY/Jarvis, and the TMO party line is non-existence; notwithstanding a few > quotes here and there that one might come up with. > ... > The Guru Dev, Satyanand model does encompass the possibility of subtle > existences after physical death among the Enlightened. For example, Guru Dev > appeared to me twice, once in 1986 as a BBB in the dream state, conveying > some interesting messages that must remain secret for now. > ... > The Guru Dev model of existence therefore differs from that of MMY, apart > from the nondual orientation, in many respects; foremost regarding the value > of devotion to the "Gods" (various Personal embodiments of the forces of > nature). > ... > Now as to "why" MMY departed from many of the "Holy Tradition" teachings, > that's anybody's guess. I suspect a demonic influence which ultimately led > MMY to (a) assume leadership of a Movement designed to propagate TM, > especially in the West; but (b) at the same time to sow the seeds of ultimate > failure and virtually demolishing the world's chances of entering into the > true Age of Enlightenment, (and the 200% Heaven on Earth angle) in the near > future. > ... > The exceedingly clinical aspects of the non-religious orientation of most of > the TMO fit in well with MMY's subterfuge and sabatoge. However, he can still > be a "BBB" (Blazing Ball of Brahman) and have deviant/evil intentions. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu" <yifuxero@> wrote: > > > > > > I disagree. > > > > > > Then you disagree with Maharishi AND you presume that Satyanand imagined or > > fabricated his story. > > > > If, as Maharishi stated, reaching the status of Krishna requires another > > series of incarnations into bodies finer than the physical after having > > achieved Unity Consciousness, that clearly shows that there is an > > individuality who has achieved Unity Consciousness that does all that > > further incarnating. > > > > And, if indeed Guru Dev was enlightened, how could he speak to Satyanand > > after his death if he had gone out of existence? > > > > > > > > > > > Accounts of various people on this forum tend to outweigh the "subtle > > > existence" option as to the official TMO dogma. (the witnesses have heard > > > the statements directly from "the Man" himself and his mouthpieces.). The > > > official dogma appears to be complete nonexistence. > > > ... > > > We must remember that Sat. is a direct disciple of Guru Dev, true? > > > The religious orientation of the latter is geared toward devotion to the > > > "Gods"; especially various form of the Divine Mother. (thus, the name > > > "Saraswati". If M. had called himself Maharishe Mahesh Yogi Saraswati, > > > then I would inquire if he were a devotee of that or another Goddess. > > > ... > > > Devotion to the "Gods" appears to be anathema to the TMO; although we all > > > know about or have read MMY's account of his own devotion to "God", > > > Brahman. (a perfectly legitimate orientation shared by Ramana although > > > the latter used the word "Self"). Muktananda says "Love God as your own > > > Self". > > > ... > > > But the Paul Mason quotes of Guru Dev clearly show a place for devotion > > > to the "Gods"...i.e. especially various Divine Mother forms along with > > > the Sri Yantra as mention in Swami Rama's book. > > > ... > > > Apart from being nondualists, I'd say that MMY and Guru Dev lived on > > > different planets. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jr_esq@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We are part and parcel of God, but can never be God, according to > > > > > Srila Prabhupada. I believe MMY wanted to say the same thing to you > > > > > about this subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. The point being made here is that when one reaches Cosmic, God, or > > > > Unity Consciousness, and then dies, we DO NOT vanish into the void of > > > > the undifferentiated Absolute [as the commonly used phrase goes, "The > > > > drop becomes the ocean," suggesting that the soul vanishes as an > > > > individual soul]. > > > > > > > > In other words, the comments from both Maharishi and Satyanand clearly > > > > indicate that there is STILL an individuality after death when one is > > > > enlightened and drops the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I asked Maharishi at TTC [Estes Park, CO] if when we reach UC are > > > > > > we then like Krishna. He answered very quickly saying, "No, that > > > > > > would require another series of incarnations into bodies finer than > > > > > > the gross physical." He then quickly changed the subject and said > > > > > > nothing further about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To further make the point that dropping the body in 'enlightenment' > > > > > > doesn't mean that one completely dissolves, here's a story that > > > > > > Brahmachari Satyanand told of his experience after the death of > > > > > > Guru Dev: > > > > > > > > > > > > --Brahmachari 'Swami' Satyanand speaking c1967 about Guru Dev's > > > > > > 'nirvana'-- > > > > > > > > > > > > 'When in 1953 Guru Dev left this mortal frame and attained nirvana > > > > > > I was at Benares, another place of pilgrimage for Hindus, and at > > > > > > that moment I was staying in the ashram of Guru Dev. > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody knew that I am very attached to Guru Dev and devoted to > > > > > > Guru Dev, and then news came to Benares that Guru Dev has attained > > > > > > nirvana. I was sitting somewhere with a group of my friends and the > > > > > > news was relayed there. > > > > > > > > > > > > When my friends heard that Guru Dev was no more they were very > > > > > > anxious about me and when they conveyed that news, they were rather > > > > > > alert to appraise whatever reaction is and what happened, I simply, > > > > > > when I heard that news I became very sad, very sorry and I just > > > > > > kept my head on the table before me. And all of them were very > > > > > > anxious what will become of me. > > > > > > > > > > > > But soon after, while I was very morose, sorrow, sad, entire world > > > > > > was empty for me and I did not understand what to do without Guru > > > > > > Dev, just a half a minute or two seconds after, a flash came and it > > > > > > appeared to me that Guru Dev was scolding me; > > > > > > > > > > > > "What a fool you are! You have been with me for all > > > > > > these many months and years, and you heard my discourses > > > > > > too. Is it a moment of feeling sorry? Why should you be > > > > > > sorry today? And you think that I am gone, where am I > > > > > > gone? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Till now whenever you wanted to meet me, you had, you > > > > > > had to come to the place where I was, and today when I > > > > > > have attained nirvana, I am everywhere, I am omnipresent. > > > > > > Where have I gone? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Very foolish for you to mourn on this occasion. > > > > > > I am with you, here, there, everywhere. Why should you > > > > > > be sorry?" > > > > > > > > > > > > And the moment this flash came, my face became very brilliant, I > > > > > > became very cheerful. And when I raised my head, my friends who > > > > > > were standing there, very anxious and held in suspense, they were > > > > > > upset to see my brilliant and cheerful face. And then they said, > > > > > > "What has happened to you?" I said, "No you can't understand, > > > > > > nothing has happened to me, I am alright, now let me go back to the > > > > > > ashram and make the necessary arrangements."' > > > > > > > > > > > > From: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/Satyanand.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
