--- In [email protected], turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], tartbrain <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "whynotnow7" <whynotnow7@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How do you know what someone in CC, GC, or UC perceives, or > > > > > doesn't? > > > > > > > > Same way I know what anyone does, by what they express. > > > > > > And the language they use to express it. If, for example, > > > someone claimed to be enlightened and *consistently*, over > > > a period of years, demonstrated 1) heavy attachment, and > > > an inability to keep from lashing out angrily at those > > > who don't believe his or her claims of enlightenment, and > > > 2) even heavier elitism, and a tendency to consider him/ > > > herself "more evolved" than others, I might not know what > > > exactly they were perceiving, but I sure know that I > > > neither value it nor want it. > > > > Funny that there is all of this fighting about a field of pure joy. > > A few years back some "spiritual" folks in Boulder > put together a bunch of seminars that they called > "Holy Man Jams." What they'd do is invite noted > spiritual teachers -- many of whom had declared > themselves to be enlightened -- to appear on the > same stage, each of them having twenty minutes or > so to do their thing, no one receiving any "higher > billing" than anyone else. > > The most fascinating thing about this noble exper- > iment is that literally every session devolved into > intense and often emotional argument. The first guy > or gal would speak and then all of the subsequent > speakers would spend most of their time trying to > refute or rebut the previous speakers. A fistfight > actually broke out onstage in one session, which > had been pre-billed as "everyone in this session > is enlightened, at least according to them." > > I am merely noting as a parallel that if the people > on this forum who have claimed to be enlightened > really are enlightened, I don't want it. And I > don't think I'm alone in this. >
Existence is not and never became "enlightened". It has always been pure joy. Some people express slices and dashes of that joy in some ways, some in others. Even people who have opened themselves up to huge joy, will express it and live it differently in their lives. Its natural that some will be attracted to and others repulsed by various walking packets of pure joy. I think labels is a large constraint in these matters. If one views Existence as "enlightened" or views themselves as having become enlightened, or others think "asshole, no way am I going to be like that so called enlightened asshole" -- it all hinges on a label "enlightenment". Why not simply focus on joy and increasing levels of joy. If one feels joy from another, and is opened up to more of that joy himself, then wonderful. If one does not perceive or experience the joy expressed by some, who cares -- move on. Find joy elsewhere.
