Mark - Well that's my I shared my personal experience not involving my Guru, it really doesn't matter where the teacher is a Satguru or not, enlightened or not since the circle is only complete when we ourselves become enlightened and then the question of the teacher is a Sadguru or not becomes moot. But for many the trust that the teacher is a Satguru itself is liberating regardless of whether the teacher is one or not. So ultimately its back to our own experiences and all spiritual techniques/concepts being merely tools to transcend and not some literal truth. With regards to sexual frustration I was just saying that all we can notice is some behavior that is off or odd or different - whether it is sexual or not, frustration or not is just a judgment.
--- In [email protected], Mark Landau <m@...> wrote: > > Hi Ravi, I agree with most of what you say here with 1 possible and 1 definite exception. > > Firstly, you seem to be holding M as pure Satguru. This, of course, is your prerogative. But, if so, we have no basis for discussion, because any blemish, shadow or dysfunction seen in him would, by definition, be pure projection of the observer. I hold that no human is pure Satguru, though Satguru exists in all things. If human, the possibility of blemish, shadow or dysfunction could, at any time, arise in any person, guru or not, and be truly perceived by a discerning observer and not be projection. > > Secondly, the statement "sexual frustration is just a judgment" is downright silly. > > Sexual frustration is an event, like sex, that can occur within anyone. Unlike sex, which is, traditionally, a physical act between two physical bodies, sexual frustration is a psycho-physical-emotional-energetic complex that arises within an individual and can effect their mind, body, mood and appearance and spill over into overt behavioral acts. > > Because it occurs within the individual, it's harder to perceive and more prone to projection. But, with discernment on the part of the observer, it could reliably be perceive in another as reality and not projection, especially if it occurs regularly ever long periods of time and affects the mood, appearance and behavior of the individual in which it is occurring. > > What is YMMV? > > On Jul 22, 2011, at 1:30 AM, Ravi Yogi wrote: > > > Mark - Thanks for your reply. I have to clarify that at no point I suggested or would ever imply that you were an imbecile or reborn as a donkey for the things you said about MMY otherwise I wouldn't have wished for your success. I hope I can try to address your points and further clarify my thoughts. > > > > > > "So, just as an example, if I say "M slept with women and got sexually frustrated when he couldn't get any," what kind of statement is this? Is it purely my projection? Is it a moral judgement? Is it objective? Is it subjective? Is it true? Is it false? Is it cavil? Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it?" > > > > M slept with women would be reality and portrayal of his behavior as sexual frustration is just a judgment and most likely your projection. > > > > "Because, as Robin says, the images that forced themselves upon us forced us to revise our estimation of the man" > > > > I wouldn't have revised the estimation, that would be swinging to the other direction, I would have doubted my initial estimation. > > > > I explained before how a Satguru as a perfect mirror, of pure awareness, would cause an array of dizzying, bewildering, conflicting emotions. > > > > However if one is aware we would find this opportunity in our day to day interactions. Any person or situation that causes bewildering, conflicting emotions would be our Guru, would point to the core pains that haven't been healed within us. > > > > This will definitely happen in any loving, intimate relationship and a relationship with someone like M definitely surpasses that. > > > > In my life my ex caused these kind of emotions, I madly loved her, so my initial estimation of her was very positive but soon over the years, she caused me lot of grief which caused me to revise my estimation like you. I was bitter, angry, miserable. > > > > But eventually I realized that all these emotions were all mine, she was who she was, but by her very nature she created this array of emotions in me, she was much more of a Guru than my Guru Ammachi. Now I just look at her, I just look at the reality, untainted, undisturbed by my own pain. > > > > Once I was healed, I was free to truly act without projecting any of my pains, I was free of the grip, grip of my own fears, insecurities, pains reflected by the other, which can only be caused by a deep intimate relationship. > > > > A deep intimate relationship where the center falls to the other, a great start but not the end, the end isn't until the center falls back in to you, into your own core. > > > > Till you are tethered to the other, the fascination continues, the blame continues, since you are not to blame. How could you be blamed? You are innocent, gullible, you are a victim, the other is to blame, the other is responsible. And the drama continues. > >
