Didn't see the body doing down but rather displayed in a pool of blood on the cement. Right now I'm concentrating on Jesus as much as possible. http://www.startlingart.com/Viewer.asp?ImageSource=fine_art&FileName=HighExpectations-Sm72res
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba <no_reply@...> wrote: > > It is kind of funny you posted this news on "David Wants to Fly," subject > title. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu" <yifuxero@> wrote: > > > > somebody just jumped off the 15 story parking structure right next to the > > building I work in. (one of those protestors since a large group of them is > > camped outside - confirmed by a news account just now). > > ... > > I always pray for the dead (to Jesus), based on intuition/feelings coupled > > with a minimum of psychic awareness. Somehow I don't believe that "Being" > > will help them, so I'm siding with Orthodox Christianity on this one. > > However, prayers to Kali might provide an equal assist. > > > > Taking a hint from the movie "Sixth-Sense"; the entity could easily sink > > into the Hellish realms. Support from such sources as the Tibetan Book(s) > > of the dead points to the benefits of prayers and mantras to assist the > > departed in their journey into the beyond. > > > > http://www.atotheword.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/rapture-ready.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu" <yifuxero@> wrote: > > > > > > thx, both of you...much food for thought! re - the East is unreal, > > > meaning Wilber's "Great Tradition" or Adi-Da's Advaitayana-Buddhism (i.e. > > > the impersonalist elements in Sanatana Dharma, as opposed to dualist > > > Vaisnava or "orthodox" Christianity [non-Gnostic, say what the Pope > > > recommends). > > > ... > > > I don't get the point. True "IT" is "unreal" in the sense of the rope not > > > being the snake but definitely not "non-experiential". It's experienced > > > as the Self. So what....then we go on the many claims that result from > > > this Gnosis or Self-Knowledge. That's where people may find many a gripe, > > > beginning with the concept of Happiness. > > > ... > > > How can people find fault with "IS-ness"? > > > ... > > > The question of the Vedic Gods is peripheral; since Ramana Maharshi as a > > > proponent of Self-Realization at various times in his life was devoted to > > > Vedic Gods, he made it clear that Ultimately (from his perspective); > > > devotion such Gods was given up relatively speaking and totally engulfed > > > within the unmanifest. > > > ... > > > In short, there are various claims as to happiness...; and I'll leave the > > > "East" at that for now. > > > ... > > > As to Christianity, (orthodox Christianity as opposed to Gnosticism); > > > there are claims as to the redeeming power of Christ's Crucifixion. > > > Are such claims (as made by St. Paul and the various historical > > > characters such as St. Xavier) true or false. What's the evidence? > > > > > > http://www.scottgbrooks.com/painting_liberty1.html > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2011, at 3:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > > > > Answer: I resist giving a simple response to this question. What > > > > > follows here is strictly my own idiosyncratic view of the matter. I > > > > > doubt I will take anyone with me in what I say. But I will go ahead > > > > > anyway. Enlightenment, in the case of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, was > > > > > real; real here means: functioning in a different context > > > > > mechanically, behaviourally, experientially. Enlightenment *is* a > > > > > separate and distinct state of awareness which is as different from > > > > > waking state as waking state is to dream state. Enlightenment is like > > > > > waking up from a dream, and it is, unquestionably, the experience of > > > > > knowing the intention of the entire cosmos is acting through one's > > > > > individual existence. Unless it has thismechanical, > > > > > purposefulaspect, it can't be enlightenment. Not the way Maharishi > > > > > defined it. Not the way Maharishi made it possible for me to know > > > > > what he was experiencing. > > > > > > > > Well I hope you realize that this would also be a classical description > > > > of an number of psychiatric disorders, including but not limited to > > > > Schizotypal personality disorder or Schizophrenia. One should probably > > > > include the more recent Kundalini psychosis. > > > > > > > > "Real" is a relative term. There is not any style of validation for > > > > these states in Mahesh's system performed by someone known to be > > > > competent with higher states of consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But as for the true reality of it: that is: does enlightenment > > > > > represent the fulfillment, the perfection, the consummation of what > > > > > it means to be a human being? this I reject categorically. > > > > > > > > Well, "pointing out" of the enlightened state is essential to grokking > > > > the reality of what we experience or imagine as an enlightened state or > > > > stage. The traditional presentation is that we've been so conditioned > > > > to delusion for countless lives that we're much, much more likely to > > > > chose a delusion as "our enlightenment". In one sense there are no > > > > enlightened people, there's only enlightened action. Those who talk, > > > > inevitably, don't know. > > > > > > > > > Enlightenmentany state that takes you outside of normal waking > > > > > stateincluding transcendenceis ultimately an illusion. > > > > > > > > Unless enlightenment involves no modification, it is seeing thing as > > > > they really are - just as they are. I think that was one of the hardest > > > > things for people (like me) who were or are conditioned by Hindu- or > > > > Veda-think to grok. > > > > > > > > > Note: I am not saying that it isn't something very real as measured > > > > > by how it allows one to function, the experience it immutably affords > > > > > one to have at all times, the stability of it, its unconquerable > > > > > integrity. It is all these things. But the question becomes: *How* is > > > > > it that this state of consciousness comes about? > > > > > > > > Buddhist awakeners might say it 'was there, from the beginning'. After > > > > all, everything that's compounded, changes. > > > > > > > > > For sure, it is the perpetual integrated experience of transcendence. > > > > > But, after all, does enlightenment correspond to objective reality? > > > > > Does reality seek to have itself embodied in a human being in the > > > > > form of enlightenment? > > > > > > > > Yes, of course it corresponds to objective reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. A universal No to this. Which is why Maharishi started to come > > > > > apart at the end; it is why (if I may speak personally) I started to > > > > > come apart at the end. Enlightenmentif you're all out therecannot > > > > > be sustained. And reality will bring it down. If, that is, you put > > > > > yourself on the line: as in: I am enlightened; let me lead you to the > > > > > promised land (Unity Consciousness). Just do this technique. Or: let > > > > > me confront you inside the metaphysical drama of creation. > > > > > > > > From the tradition I come from, and the actual tradition of Christ some > > > > believe, they might say that relaxation (unstressing?) continues to the > > > > cellular level. One gets less and less encumbered - and then just > > > > returns to the source of the five elements: light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, strictly speaking, yes, TM "can produce a style of psychosis" > > > > > which could describe fittingly the state of enlightenment. But I have > > > > > never seen *anyone* on the earth other than Maharishi that I believe > > > > > is 'truly enlightened'. > > > > > > > > I have. But I have to say I don't feel nor had I ever experienced > > > > Mahesh as "enlightened". A couple of minor siddhis? Maybe. And then > > > > even that fell away. That would be my perception. > > > > > > > > But then maybe he was just not my Elvis. > > > > > > > > > Because, as I have said, enlightenment requires the cosmos to appear > > > > > to be behind one's actions and supporting one's experience of a > > > > > unified state of consciousness. Enlightenment should and can meet all > > > > > testsbut one. All the tests short of reality deciding to confront > > > > > it. Then Reality overpowers reality. And enlightenment is seen for > > > > > what it really is: a very unnatural, deceitful, black-magical state > > > > > of consciousness, which alienates one from who one really is. > > > > > > > > Well that brings up an interesting observation other yogis have made on > > > > dark yogis like Mahesh. They are experts at producing forms of > > > > delusion, mind-scars if you will, that can enslave one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I am concerned Maharishi's version of what enlightenment is > > > > > is the only true enlightenment of my lifetime. > > > > > > > > I'd honestly have to say the opposite: his is the only > > > > faux-enlightenment system I've experienced directly. And it's also the > > > > only system of meditation I know of that caused so much suffering to > > > > it's practitioners. Shakyamuni was right: siddhis are the purest form > > > > of suffering. > > > > > > > > What does that say for someone who urged his students to cultivate > > > > siddhis? > > > > > > > > > Maharishi lived out the truth of his enlightenmentuntil the > > > > > universe, or what is behind the universe, decided it had had enough, > > > > > and in its unfathomable providence decided to bring him down. And is > > > > > still bringing him down. > > > > > > > > He's still a mystery. I'm open to "whatever". It could turn out the > > > > fanatic marketing job he did in popularizing meditation will be the > > > > right catalyst at the right time. And then we'll all have a good laugh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it brought me down too. So, then, I deny, challenge, the > > > > > so-called enlightenment of anyone other than Maharishi. How so, > > > > > Robin? Because I know I can destabilize and undo that illusion if it > > > > > gets presented to me in the form of another human being. Not in the > > > > > form of Maharishi, howevernot when I knew him; not when I was > > > > > enlightened. The universe allowed Maharishi to represent itself, even > > > > > though, when it really came down to it, it rejected him, and sent him > > > > > on his way. And I am still suffering the consequences of this same > > > > > kind of rejection. That is, I am still finding out how f***ked up I > > > > > made myself by going into Unity Consciousness on that mountain in > > > > > Switzerland. > > > > > > > > > > So, as long as one stays in waking state, one is all right. But > > > > > anyone who claims to be enlightened, first of all is not enlightened > > > > > in the sense that the universe or reality is getting behind that > > > > > enlightenmentas it did in the case of Maharishi, as it did, in the > > > > > case of myself; and secondly they are making themselves weaker as a > > > > > human being than they otherwise would be were they to step out of > > > > > their so-called enlightenment and become a normal waking state person > > > > > again. Every guest on BatGap fits this description, and Rick's > > > > > association with TM and Maharishi renders him far more subtle, > > > > > fluent, savvy in his conversation about things cosmic than anyone of > > > > > his guests. They are all in an illusion of one kind of another. > > > > > > > > It seems we agree on many things! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, short of enlightenment, perhaps it's just fine to think one can > > > > > evolve into a higher state of consciousness through TM or any other > > > > > meditation technique. Myself, I have not outside of Maharishi > > > > > encountered a single person who claims to be enlightened who can > > > > > stand up to the confrontation of their enlightenment. They just get > > > > > angry or out of control, and the falseness of their experience gets > > > > > exposed. Nobody, by contrast, could lay a hand on Maharishi. But they > > > > > could now. Same applies to myself. > > > > > > > > > > But since God is no longer enabling us to know his Creationand > > > > > ourselvesthrough his own grace, well, then, everything is up for > > > > > grabs. And everyone's reality is just as valid as anyone else's > > > > > reality. But for sure enlightenment in some objective sense is a form > > > > > of psychosisbut it may be supported by awesomely powerful invisible > > > > > beings like Devas, or angels, or discarnate spirits. I think this > > > > > causality applies to Maharishi, and I have come to believe applies to > > > > > my myself. > > > > > > > > > > If there was anything valid or truthful or objective about > > > > > enlightenment, the West would have made it an object of scientific > > > > > study centuries agoand all those Jesuit Missionaries to India and > > > > > Japan in the fifteenth century would have been brought up short when > > > > > they encountered some Guru or Roshi. They did not, because > > > > > enlightenment is a mystical state of consciousness which does not > > > > > correspond to reality as it is governed and sustained (and was > > > > > originally created) by a personal Creator. The Holy Ghost was with > > > > > the Jesuits [like St Francis Xavier]. Enlightenment will never become > > > > > part of philosophy, psychology, science, or literature: because it is > > > > > *not real*. Therefore the East is ultimately, in its spirituality, > > > > > unreal. The spirituality of the West once *was real*. The basis of > > > > > its reality has gone. And therefore we in the Westespecially since > > > > > psychedelics moved inhave followed the gods of the East. > > > > > > > > Some would say that the only extant remnant of the style of complete > > > > awakening left on planet earth that corresponds to what Jesus of > > > > Nazareth experienced is that of the Mahasandhi yogis of Tibet who, > > > > similarly, simply dissolve into light: and thereby gain the > > > > simultaneous ability to merge with hundreds of thousands of dakinis, in > > > > innumerable realms as enlightened activity. > > > > > > > > If this wasn't the case, I doubt the Roman Catholic church would have > > > > so much interest in a phenomenon that'd they'd have teams of scientists > > > > waiting till the next time they get a report... > > > > > > > > > >
